Defeating Late Japanese Armor - Tosei Gusoku (当世具足)

Defeating Late Japanese Armor - Tosei Gusoku (当世具足)


A section of the famous ukiyo - e
 "ten brave takeda warriors" -武田勇士揃 by Utagawa Sadahide.

This was an article that was requested and one that I've really enjoyed writing, although it took a lot of efforts and researches.
It is a follow up of my complete analysis of the heaviest possible configuration worn by a wealthy samurai during the late 16th century, Tosei Gusoku (当世具足) - Body Coverage Explained; if you haven't read it yet, I highly suggest you to do so in order to better understand this topic.

So today I will cover the various way to specifically deal with that type of configuration and how it was done historically during the Sengoku period.
Before start, I will do a quick recap on the main weakspots of the armor:


A sketch of the most protective possible configuration of a late 16th century tosei gusoku. I'm not an artist but all the armor pieces you see are based on real pieces found in museum, private collection and so on that are available on my pinterest page for reference.

The main openings are the palms of the hands, the space in between the helmet and the mask and the space for mouth, and if someone is able to get around the tassets ( the kusazuri - 
草摺) the upper legs and the groins.
Other weakspots that could be bypassed are the ones covered with flexible armor like mail or kikko brigandine; the inner part of the arms, the armpits, and the back of the legs and knees.
Another point worth mentioning is the fact that in there is an uneven thickness across the armor to save the weight; the face and neck, the upper arms and the legs are usually covered with thinner metal (0.7-1.2 mm) compared to the breastplate and the helmet, which could reach 2.5 mm or even more; this is important for the sake of this analysis.


Ranged Weapons




The Third World Kyudo Taikai (Tokyo) 2018 Demonstration were a group of reenactors perform battlefield archery known as Koshiya Kumiyumi - 
腰矢組弓 . Taken from here.

When it comes to the ranged weapons of the period, namely the bow and the arquebus, there are some consideration to do.
The first thing to say about the bow is that all the armor is essentially arrow proof behind the 30 meters range. In fact, despite the power of the Yumi, the well forged plates and the deflecting curvatures are too much to bypass.
This is also backed up by Musashi's book of five rings, in which he explicit says that in a battlefield scenario, the bow "was unsatisfactory if the enemy is more than 40 meters away " exactly due to armor being involved.
Within the "close quarter range", so in the 20-10 meters scenario, it might be possible for a very heavy war arrow to pierce the thinnest parts, like the kote, the menpō or the haidate, although in these cases the plates are curved and this fact alone could prevent the arrow to penetrate.
In any case, the penetration will be very mild and might not even bypass the silk robes worn under the armor.


A Japanese arrow head of the Togari type; only these types of arrows could slip trough mail.

The only instance in which a bow could create some injuries is the scenario in which a mail section is hit (with the exception of the frontal armpit zone, since there is the double layer of mail and kikko manchira), or if the arrow manage to get stuck in between the helmet and the mask where there is indeed an opening.
However, the mail section are usually facing the inside of the warrior and are hard to access for an arrow shot, and hitting the eyes could be prevented by looking down while approaching archers.

The situation is much more different when arquebuses are involved.
Although these suits were usually bulletproof within 10 or more meters, this fact only apply for the helmet bowl and the breastplate.
If a bullet hit another area, like the limbs or the face, it is very likely to penetrate the armor unless the warrior is about 50 meters away from the rifle.
Although a bullet in the arm is not as deadly as one in the head, it could be potentially fatal; Ii Naomasa was hit at the right arm at Sekigahara by a bullet, either in the shoulder or in the elbow according to different accounts, and his death is largely blamed for that wound.
In addition to that, a point blank shot might bypass the bulletproof sections of the armor, but it is very unlikely and in any case the penetration would be minimal.





A tameshi zunari kabuto (試し頭形兜); in the picture it is possible to see the bullet marks.

However, if the arquebus in question is an Ōzutsu with a very large bullet, there is no chance that the armor might allow the wearer to survive at a reasonable distance. Such bullets were too heavy and too big and no armor could resist to them.




2 one hundred monme (
百匁) size bullets; such projectiles were usually fired by those weapons and bypassed the armor as if it was nothing.


So when talking about ranged weaponry, only heavy caliber muskets ( and to some minor extent also arquebuses) posed a real threat for the warriors wearing that kind of configuration.


Percussive Weapons




Two warriors fighting with two kanabō, taken from the 
絵本武蔵の鐙

Within the hand to hand combat, the situation is very different.
I've made a lot of articles which talks about different types of percussive weapons used throughout the feudal period in Japan, and how they were supposed to be good against armor.
In case you have missed them, I'm going to talk about the kanasaibō (金砕棒) (also known as kanab
ō) mace, the masakari (鉞) axe and the tsuruhashi (鶴觜) warpick which despite being quite rare, were the major percussive weapons used on the battlefield.
Just like with the majority of the percussive weapons of the medieval era we haven't any martial arts manual on how to use them and I have to use some interpretation in this case so please be aware that what I'm going to write it might not be entirely correct.

Despite the lack of martial knowledge, it is quite easy to immagine how such weapons were intended to be used: to strike with full force against the enemy in order to inflict blunt trauma through the armor.
However, maces and percussive weapons in general are not magical implements that could easily bypass armor as if it was nothing.
If we start considering a staff like kanab
ō, slightly tapered and long, with quite a lot of heft and a point of balance toward the tip, it is logical to assume that by using it like a sword or a quarterstaff there will be a lot of force transmitted to the target. 


A section of the famous "十二類巻物の書誌情報 " scroll in which a long staff like kanabō is used.

However, a lot of said energy will be absorbed by the armor which will likely dent and deform. The result is that the armor will be more or less damaged (according to where the hit has landed), but the wearer might not have been hurt that much; although it is better than nothing, blunt trauma is not as effective as a stab or as cut, unless bones are broken which is not very common when someone is protected by rigid armor.
Bending the steel plates that compose the armor is not easy in a fight and there are some zones that will negate much of the force because of the thickness, various layers and space in between the armor and the wearer.
One of these zone is the chest, which is protected by the d
ō (). In the configuration studied here, the dō is made with a sigle rigid well forged sheet of steel that encase the wearer; it doesn't directly touch the wearer with the exception of the shoulders and the hips where it rest, it is doomed thus increasing the chance of deflecting and behind it there are layers of arming garments that further increase the protection. A hit in this area might leave a dent, but it won't hurt the wearer.

Another zone like this is the head; the kabuto has a bowl which is among the thickest part of the armor, it is doomed and the head inside it is suspended so before touching the steel a lot of force would be deaden. Moreover, there is a layer of padding underneath.
However, the head is at the same time the target that reacts the most against blunt trauma, and a crack in the skull could lead to death or instantly disable the enemy.

So in this scenario, the most reasonable way to use a kanab
ō is to hit the limbs and the head especially at the temples area where the helmet is also closer to the head; the former are the targets that are covered with the thinnest armor, the latter is the most important target in a fight.
Hitting the limbs especially in the joints of the elbows, which are covered either by mail or a section of lames, could potentially break the arm or disable it for a while. The same apply for the hands, a precise hit with a kanabō is likely to break the bones in that area.
The arm itself has a lot of give when it is hit, so a lot of force is dissipated, but it would likely still be effective. 
Another target are the lower legs; a strong hit might bypass the suneate or even knock out of balance the warrior.

However, the most important aspect of this weapon is the length of the shaft, which could be used as a wrestling implement to subdue the enemy and locking him to the ground.
Once on the ground, a dagger could finish the job. In fact, this is the most realistic scenario in which two armored warriors could end.
Other versions of the kanab
ō like the shortest ones cannot rely on this feature and so are quite demanding in a battlefield scenario, especially given the poor defensive capabilities and the reach of a shorter mace; this is also why the two handed longer version were more common (despite still being rare).

A different scenario is on horseback; despite the many artistic representations of  later periods with warriors on horseback holding the two handed mace, we lack 16th century references of this kind of usage.
On a charging horse, a direct hit with the kanab
ō is a lot more devastating than on foot and hitting the head could be deadly.


An ukiyo-e depicting a kanabō being used on horseback.


All things considered, despite being a very effective weapon to destroy the armor itself by dents, the kanabō is not the best weapon to disabilitate the wearer behind it.

It is quite slow and it has limited area in which could deal severe damage in few hits, and require a good amount of space to be used. It can still be effectively used with bojutsu techinque but it won't be as nimble as it should, and except on horseback, its damages against heavy and thick armor are limited. This why it wasn't as commonly used in the 16th century as other, much more suited weapons.



Now let's analyze the masakari axe; much of what I've previously said it's still valid and even more, because despite the axe having and edge which could focus its force in a smaller area, it is usually less heavy than a kanabō. Some Japanese axes have a back head that could be used more or less like a mace but the aforementioned analysis is the same.
The blade, like the spiked kanab
ō, could potentially "bite" into the armor, but it won't cut through it and won't hit as hard as the two handed mace.

Some axes have a top spike which could be extremely useful, but their usage is more similar to spears and other polearms so I will talk about them later; for now, let's focus on the "average" two handed Japanese masakari.



A classic depiction of the masakari axe, from "春日権現験記. 第8軸".

Although usually the axe is not as long as a kanabō, it can still be used in the same way as a wrestling implement, but not as effectively mainly due to weapon being very top heavy and so not easy to maneuver.
However, the advantage of the masakari over the mace is the shape of the blade on top of the shaft; it could be used to hook limbs, armor pieces or the heads. Once that the axe is hooked at the enemy, he can be thrown to the ground,  the best solution to armored combat. Not every axe's blade is suited for this purpose tough, and hooking is not as easy as it might seems.
So the axe could be used as a percussive weapon and to gain advantage over the enemy by "hooking" his armor, but in regards to this feature there are weapons that could do it better.


Now let's move to the warpick. If we know very little about Japanese axes and maces, we know even less about this weapon. Interestingly, the majority of the surviving examples and depictions are one handed, short weapons which completely changed the scenario discussed until now.
In fact, if it is still possible to transmit some degree of blunt trauma through armor with the masakari and the kanab
ō due to their mass but especially due to their leverage gained by the longer shaft, it is very hard to do so with a shorter and lighter weapon like this warpick. With this in mind, it doesn't surprise that the majority of the examples of said weapon lack a "hammer side" and are usually very long and solid picks.



A Edo period tsuruhashi.

Unlike the other two percussive weapons previously analyzed, this warpick is meant to pierce and penetrate armor rather than crushing it. However, there are some issues that need to be addressed.
First of all, piercing through plate is not easy especially in the thickest part of the armor, moreover, the weapon is very likely to bounce due to the curvature especially when attacking the head or the torso.
The best targets in this scenario are the limbs and possibly the head, but while it might be possible to obtain penetration in the former it is highly unlikely to pierce the helmet to a significative degree in order to wound the enemy.
Second, if the weapon manage to pierce a plate, the chances of the pick being stuck are quite high and thus the weapon might be lost; this is why knobs were used on maces rather than very pointy spikes.
Yet it is fair to say that a warpick in the arm or in the leg is arguably capable of disabling a person, despite a rather shallow penetration.
However, what this warpick is capable to do that neither the kanabō or the masakari could is piercing through mail with ease. In fact, rather than targeting the zones covered with plate, it would be much better to try to hit the ones covered by flexible armor. In this case, the penetration could be severe and inflict serious damage.
This zones are quite hard to hit due to the way the weapon is handled, but it can be used to reliably defeat mail and possibly kikko brigandine.

Another point in favor of the weapon is that just like with the axe, since the pick is angled to the shaft, it can be used to hook although the rather short handle means that it would be very hard to subdue someone.
In fact the serious disadvantage of this weapon is its length, that paired with the very low defensive capability of the pick, explains why it wasn't used that much as far as we know.
These issues could be solved with a small hand held shield, although we lack accounts or evidences of said combination in the 16th century.

All things considered, percussive weapons are still quite valid against armor, especially in a battlefield context in which the blunt force could be used to concuss the enemy and open him to the attacks of another soldier; yet at the same time, the space and the energy required to use these weapons properly made them somewhat unsuited for the tight formations of the Sengoku period.
As counter intuitive as it might seems, these weapons weren't the first choice when it comes to deal with the armor analyzed.



Polearms

This is hands down the most viable weapon's category to deal against armor; in particular, I'm talking about the Japanese yari (
), which is often translated as spear in English. Now, as I have already said previously, a better translation for yari should be polearm, because while it can be a spear, it can also be something more akin to a halberd, a ranseur, and sometime even more similar to a poleaxe rather than a simple spear.
This part of weapon history is quite complicated, but among the various types of yari it is possible to find ones made to thrust, to cut or specifically to bite into armor just as much as a tsuruhashi, and to cut&thrust.
It is indeed a multipurpose tool that can be used very effectively in the topic discussed here.

Two things that the yari has over the aforementioned weapons are the reach and the nimbleness; in fact a yari is usually longer and swifter than any axe or mace used in Japan.
The long shaft is still short enough to be used in a close quarter situation as a wrestling implement, like with a kanab
ō, but it would be less heavier and thus much more balanced in the hands. 
Moreover, even the simplest variation, a straight su yari (素槍), could spot two parrying hooks that are fundamental to hook the enemy or his weapon.
This alone could be enough to explain why the yari is the better weapon in this regard.




A simple su yari with parrying hooks.

Without going deeply into the various types of yari used during the feudal period, since there will be eventually a dedicated article in the future, it is worth mentioning the fact that some yari were indeed made to be used as percussive weapons, with side blades resembling axes or warpick, and in some instances even hammers.
So, to some extent, they could have been used just the aforementioned weapons, although they would have been lighter but faster.



A yari designed to be used as percussive weapon rather than as a spear. This design is called hantsuki yari as written in the picture.

However, the key point in favor of the yari is that, while it is not particularly good directly against armor ( a kanabō would likely dent severely armor's plates, a yari won't in most cases) it is extremely good at exploiting armor's gaps due to its spearhead.
A spear's wound through a gaps covered by flexible armor would be much more incapacitating than a bruise to the head or the limbs, not to mention that to cause internal bleeding through this type of armor with percussive weapons required multiple hits with huge force behind it (after all, rigid armor is the best solution against percussive weapons).
Not every yari had tips and points optimized to thrust through flexible armor, but some indeed had it and these ones were the best yari to use against armor.
This, combined with the other advantages, make the yari the ideal weapon and it is not a surprise to see that it was essentially the main weapon used on the battlefield by the samurai, whether on horseback or on foot.


The famous "Shiratori no yari - 白鳥鞘の鑓" associated with Tokugawa Ieyasu; said spear has a very fine and tapered point that could potentially thrust through flexible armor.

On horseback it is quite easy to see that the speed of the animal could increase the impact and thus the damage of a a yari's thrust dramatically, which could led to penetration of the plate or severe damage to the armor and the men behind it, so there is not much to discuss.
What is interesting about foot combat with a yari is that, unlike with the percussive weapons discussed above, we have extant techniques used to deal with armor. This, paired with the massive usage of yari among the armored samurai testify the incredible effectiveness of the weapon against armor.
For the sake of simplicity and space, I've excluded other polearms weapons like the nodachi or the naginata due to being rather ineffective against heavy armor like this one, save for few occasion.

I've tried to analyzed and sketch briefly the various techniques used by the Yagy
ū Shingan Ryū (柳生心眼流) in their Kacchū Heihō (甲冑兵法 - Armored art of war) set of techniques. Mind you, these sketches don't aim to be good representation, but they are meant to give a very general idea.


In this first technique, reading from left to right, the enemy is going to strike low, to either hook or cut the leg with his side blades. When he close the distance, use the lower end of the shaft to redirect his weapon, with a push or a hit in order to knock the spear out of the way:

Once is spear is to the side, he is open to the front. Thrust into his face with both hands in order to finish him. This technique could be applied to some extent with a kanabō or even a naginata, although a spear with a straight blade is likely to hit the eyes more reliably. In this position, it is also possible to hook the enemy head with a side blade/parrying hook and throwing to the ground or hit his head to the side full force with a side blade.


In this technique, both fighters are facing each other. Use a high stance in order to expose your armpit and allow the enemy to lunge and hit his weapon, or directly thrust your blade into his weapon in order to entangle it:


Once the blade are entangled, rotate the spear and redirect his weapon towards the sky, in order to expose his armpits:


Once his spear is pointed towards the sky, remove your blade from the entanglement by rotating it in the other direction and get low. From this position, if one his quickly enough,  it is possible to access with a strong thrust to the armpits, the face, or the side of the hips (if uncovered by the kusazuri).

There are even more techniques that I won't cover in this article, but the system is roughly this one. Unfortunately, researching those martial arts knowledge is really hard, as well as giving enough details through sketches.


Swords & daggers

I know that there is a lot of interest among sword's enthusiast when it comes to use swords against armor. However, to put it bluntly, in general swords are the worst weapons to use in this scenario (saved for very specific European design) because they lack the reach and the leverage to exploit reliably armor's gaps as well as the percussive power and the mass to seriously injury someone through armor.
Moreover, some swords are worst than others to deal with this very hard task, namely curved ones with broad tips, which is a good approximate description of a katana.



A typical katana shape with a curved blade and a broad tip. This sword design it is not very optimized to be used against armor.

Moreover, there are some famous koryū schools that have techniques used to deal against armored opponents with a Japanese style blade, but some of them are centered around cutting into precise spots like the internal portion of the arms, of the legs, the armpit or around the neck and throat.
However, these spots could be covered by armor! One of the things that is often misunderstood is that how enclosed late Japanese armor could be, and paired with the popularity of these aforementioned technique, the final result is that the picture is very distorted.In fact, just to show a quick example, a cut directed to the inside of the arm would do no damage when someone is wearing something like this:



Maybe one or two laces would be damaged, but there will be no blood loss at all due to the presence of mail.
Another big misconceptions is that the Japanese sword "is designed to cut the enemy's armor's cords and laces " that hold it together.
Again, this is quite ineffective since those laces were usually located into hard-to-reach spots as well as being covered themselves by armor. Not to mention that to reliably cut those laces and make the armor fall apart, you will need multiple cuts, so it's just better to aim for the already present weakspots instead of wasting time, energy and possibly your life in trying to create new ones. Not to mention that within this context, a tosei gusoku didn't have a lot of laces to begin with.

Of course said aforementioned technique could work in a different context, after all not every Japanese warriors on the battlefield had mail covering his armpits or insides of the arms, as well as a full kit of armor. A slash to a unarmored leg is much more effective and natural when dealing with less armored foes, which means the average threats of those battles.
Still, full armored combats with swords in a Japanese context is somewhat different to what is often portrayed and in this article I want to show you a bigger picture.

First of all, the sword; while the average (pop culturally speaking) Japanese katana born from the smiths of the Edo period is not suited to bypass the flexible armor used to cover weakspots in Japanese armors, some design might work better:


This example is a very peculiar Japanese sword, far from being common, but it is possible to see a very long and tapered okissaki paired with a shallow curved; this type of sword design is found in shobu zukuri or naginata naoshi zukuri blades, although my example is very extreme if you will.
Said sword could probably stand a chance when it comes to slip through mail rings covering the armpit for example, and it's the best design you could get to deal with armor when it comes to Japanese swords.

The second important point is how to use such weapons in the armored context and the answer might be familiar among some readers; using the point and try to reach those famous weakspots covered by flexible armor or not, using a hand to aid redirecting the blade (a technique commonly called half swording) and using the kashira (頭) of the sword (the pommel) to hit the enemy's face in order to lightly concuss him and create openings.
Murder strokes or using the whole sword by the blade and striking with the hilt is not something seen in traditional Japanese martial arts, but the if we look at the other techniques they are not too dissimilar to European techniques.
Below some simplified techniques taken from the Yagyū Shingan Ryū (柳生心眼流) in their Kacchū Heihō (甲冑兵法); again, since they are sketches of mine, the same thing said above is still valid.


In this technique, reading from left to right, both warriors are facing each other, with a low stance. As soon as the enemy approach with a downward cut or with a thrust, use the back of your blade to intercept his and start to rotate the weapon:


Once the rotation start, it is important to redirect his blade towards the sky, while closing the distance. Once his weapon is pointed in the desired direction, lower the body in order to access to the armpits:



From this lower position, if one is fast enough, he could thrust the blade under the helmet into the face or into one of the armpits. To aid with accuracy, it is possible to allow the blade to slide on the attacker's shoulder or grab the blade on the back with the other hand and use half swording.


In this technique, which is also found in Tenshin Ryū (天心流), both opponents are facing each other with a mid height stance. Once the enemy attack, parry with a static block and aid the maneuver with the hand on the back of the blade, while assuming a lower stance:


The action should then be very quick; use then both hands to "pivot" the blade and put the opponent's sword to the side, and then while grabbing the blade and using halfswording, close the distance and thrust to his head. Otherwise, use the other side of the blade while rotating and hit him with the kashira to the face.
Many variations of this technique exist according to the direction of one's block.

Moreover, it is also possible to start directly with a halfswording stance in order to be faster, as shown by original scrolls:


A detail from an original scroll of the Yagyu Shingan Ry
ū.

Again, it is worth saying that more technique exist as well, but the same rule above is still valid unfortunately.
To give you a better overview, here is one detail of the original technique:


When it comes to dagger, the situation is more clear and simple; although techniques existed as well, it is worth saying that the true field of the dagger in the armored context is to get very close and exploit the gaps of the armor, in particular in the face or the groin, to obtain a quick demise of the enemy. Most of the time, a dagger would be used on the ground, when the two armored warriors are wrestling to gain an advantage and there isn't a lot of space for complex technique.
Moreover, among dagger's design, there are some Japanese ones that are specifically made to defeat mail armor, the yoroidoshi (- armor piercer, in which armor here means mail since it's not possible to stab through lamellar or plate) and were very popular in the 16th century.
So despite there would be a lot to write, it is quite possible that a dagger's stab ended most of the fight between heavily armored samurai in a very simple and direct way.
In fact, it is worth to assume that most of the fights that involved hooking the enemy or wrestling him to the ground ended in a situation in which one of the two unsheathed his dagger to give the final blow, rather than maneuver his spears.
Daggers are faster and precise especially when the situation is very close quarter.


A good example of a "osoraku" tantō (おそらく短刀), one of the style optimized for this kind of task, born in the 16th century. Other similar ones are moroha zukuri tantō, ken tantō, yari tantō, shobu zukuri tanto and so on.  Similar if not identical designs are also found in wakizashi swords.


Final thoughts and conclusion


While most of what its written here still apply in a warfare situation, it is worth considering some important facts.
First of all, as I've said above, armored skirmishes on foot were likely ended with a dagger hit into a vital spots once the enemy was subjugated, and although the techniques described are worked well, the best solution in the heat of the battle was to keep your enemy at bay with a spear, and aim for a precise hit into his face or armpit and groin if exposed.
Another ideal solution was to close the distance as fast as possible, and once the spearhead was behind, engage with a dagger.
This is exactly what happens most of the time in the Japan armored battle league (ガチ甲冑合戦) in which fighters are supposed to engage into combat with spears, swords and daggers and are required to hit vital spots usually covered with flexible armor.Although there are some problems and flaws in my opinion in their recreation (for budget sake's, armors and weapons are made of soft materials; while this limits injuries, it also remove any substantial percussive force to the spears, and although they are occasionally used to bash the enemy into submission, the whole shaft is very flexible and there is no real perceived threat in the spear's hits), I still value a lot their experience due to the realistic approach, and it's very common for them to drop the spear and engage into jiujitsu with daggers. This was also true, for example, into European armored combat.
Another point is that warfare and battle are made of multiple men engaging into combat, and victory is not obtained by casualties but by routing the enemy army. This should be kept in mind, since in this context, it was totally possible that while one men hooked the enemy, a nearby allied soldier might finished him with a thrust. Teamwork was the main why to fight, even in Japan.
Push of pikes, volleys of arrows and bullets, tight skirmishes were the bread and butter of those warriors, and within these scenario, there was little space for techniques and wrestling to the ground.
Armored duels that fits in this context were rare.
Not to mention that not everyone in the field had such protective gears, and the majority of soldiers would have fought differently.
Moreover, the men that could afford such armors were usually deployed in the cavalry, and while they could fight either as shock cavalry or as mounted infantry, they were usually specialized in routing, chasing and flanking the enemy formations, although occasionally they also fought against similar equipped warriors as well.

So with all these things in mind, it is important to highlight that the things I wrote here, while still viable, are confined into a niche in the context of the historical battles and warfare of Japan.

Thank you for reading all of this; I hope that it was entertaining and informative! It took a lot of research and time but it was extremely fun to write, and I hope it's the same to read!
Please for any questions don't hesitate to ask in the comment and feel free to share it.

Gunbai

Comments

  1. Wow! Thank you very much for your time and effort to granting the request. Every week i check your website, and now the wait is paid off. High quality writing as usual, very informative with a lot of detail. Keep up the good work, hope to see another quality writings in the future. Once again, thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for your kind words!
      It was a very nice article to write, I hope to write more like this in the future and to post more often. Words like these are extremely motivating, I'm glad you liked it!

      Delete
  2. A great article, as always! There is still a lot of misconception about the fight in armor, both on European and Japanese armor. Although I think there is even more misconcepcion about Japanese armor.
    It would be interesting an article about the nanban in general. On the armors at least, and as they were not as influential as the people usually think.
    Oh, I also wanted to ask you a question ... What do you think about Iron Mountain Armory? Do they make good armor reproductions?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes indeed, I will write an article about each style of tosei do in the future and I will talk in details about the nanban do!

      Well IMA armor replicas are okay as far as their tosei look is concerned although they offer 20% of the various styles of Japanese armors you can find especially as far as limb armors, menpo and helmets are concerned. They are improving but you can tell quite easily that's a replica.
      They don't use original lacquer and it's quite evident, their armor is not battle ready as far as I'm concerned and outside Tosei gusoku design they are not very well versed imho.
      For example, the so called 14th century armor Metraton has, it has nothing from the 14th century at all!
      Also their kuwagata looks flimsy and I can go on for ages but I would say that you get what you pay... good for display and larp, but it is not a very good nor perfect example of Japanese armor.

      To see the difference you can have a look at auctions website where they sell true armors and compare the look.

      Delete
    2. In general, my problem with IMA is that its armor is somewhat weak. In a video they did showing how strong he was, he managed to resist the impacts of each weapon, but not in the best way. Makes me think that this would be the armor of a poor samurai ...
      I believe that if they are battle ready, but back, going towards cheap specter of the matter. Anyway, I think that video of the proof of the armor gave an erroneous idea to people about how resistant it was a samurai armor. Even me in a moment gave me the wrong idea!
      About the market of armor replicas, do you know about any armory that makes really good armor? There are always the gunsmiths who do custom jobs in any case ... I could also learn to do them myself ... although I do not have the money for any of those things ...

      Delete
    3. Owner of an custom IMA suit here. Agree their base armors are off, sometimes by a lot. However, if you take the time to do your research (such as Trevor Absolon's book on the cuirass) they can put together a very good piece, although the price will match. I find my gusoku a useful teaching and training tool in the sense that it is there where it matters but there are still cost saving measures. As you mentioned, the lacquer is actually powder coat (I believe) and the ito is neither silk, nor leather, but rather a modern synthetic.

      I also believe customer's such as myself are driving their increase accuracy, as the requests I made to make the suit historically accurate are now offered in their standard ordering forms. Looking forward to seeing what else they come up with and helping to further guide their development.

      Finally, I want to say that this blog is an amazing find and slots in nicely with the research I'm trying to do on studying Japanese armored combat. I really appreciate what is being done here to dispel the myths and legends. I'll be contacting Gunbai directly in the hopes of gleaning more information. Thanks for all your great work.

      Delete
    4. Sorry, just realized I put Gunbai instead of Gunsen. Not familiar with this format; don't see an edit function.

      Delete
    5. @Francisco
      I had the same feeling when I saw the video few years ago. It prevented the weapons to pierce or bypass the armor but at the same time there were severe dents and deformations. While it is definitely possible that some suits had that quality of protection, others even lower than that, we do know that bulletproof armors existed as well. So it's really a matter of cost&quality, people should realize that a 5000 $ suit is not the high end of the spectrum (unfortunately).

      About your question, honestly I don't know; IMA is the only company that does a very decent job as aesthetic and price are concerned, when it comes to foreign ones. You can see if there are Japanese ones, and while I know that some true armor makers still exist in Japan, they more often than not focus on restoration rather than producing new kits.
      Granted, it will cost a lot of money I'm afraid. But you can wait few years and I'll bet IMA will produce new high quality suits, since they are constantly improving on their products as far as I am aware.

      Delete
    6. @Soulblade
      I'm glad that a customer who actually owns one of their armor has the same opinion as I have.
      It is true that they also take custom orders, so if you really want to get a decent kit they might be the ones able to make it for a reasonable price indeed.

      My biggest gripe with their products is the kote; I see that they are also producing manchira armored vests and kogake, but the kote are very basic ones.
      I would love to see them making heavy tsutsu kote with stronger mails configurations both on the inside and outside of the arm with integrated mail wakibiki or even a tominaga configuration, as well as producing teko with finger's plates or mail gloves.
      This would increase my opinion on them a lot, as well as using higher carbon steel for their armors.

      Also, their tatami armor is very minimal; I know for sure that there isn't a lot of demand for that, but as I see true tatami sets in museums, compared to the IMA's ones there is no match at all.

      Thank you for your kinds words by the way! I appreciate that my efforts are acknowledged. You can call me either Gunbai (which is the name of the blog as well as the signature under every article I made) or Gunsen since it's the name of the account that made this blog, it is the same ;)
      You can also write me an e-mail at gunsen.military.history@gmail.com for better conversations, since I know that my comment section is fairly limited unfortunately.

      Delete
  3. At the end of the day the spear still proves itself as the absolute monarch of the battlefield.

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    1. That's true, it is good on horseback, on foot, in formation and for single combat. It's really the king!

      Delete
  4. Excellent blog, Gunsen! and probably the closet thing you'll ever do when it comes to discussing about the martial prowess of Samurai, excellent work!...

    I have an image that may catch your interest which seems relevant to the topic of discussion... Here is a rare image I found which a Samurai blocks an incoming sword strike from an armored Samurai during that moment of notice, he capitalizes on that small opening and thrusts the katana into his throat. Next to it there is also a drawing of him catching someone's yari then thrusting the sword into a weak point in the guy's armor.

    http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/redcomet2ch/imgs/b/b/bb0c787c.jpg

    This has led me to wonder/believe if just like the Knights, do Samurai also incorporate grappling techniques to use in conjunction with their swordsmanship.

    So was it also common for Samurai katana wielders to use their armored kote to block an incoming weapon strike or use their hands to grab an enemy weapon to create a window of opportunity for them to thrust/slash at the opening gaps of their armor just like their Knight counterparts?

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    1. Thank you so much! It was a big project that took a lot of time but at the end I've only scratched the surface.

      I've seen that picture before and it's totally ok although I have never seen any kacchu heiho schools doing something like that. Yet it would work, but I cannot tell if blocking with the kote was something done as a form of technique or as a form of "improvisation" nor how often you would have wanted to do that.

      Grabbing the enemy weapon and using jiujitsu on the other hand were the most reliable tactics in a close quarter fight between two armored warrios.
      The topic is quite rich and complex, but unfortunately sources on this field are very hard to find!

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    2. That you did! if there is more to talk about, I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about it : )

      Hmm I think as long as the enemy struck the metal plates of the kote, then it is reliable imo for it to work as an improvised blocking to create a window of opportunity for a counter attack. Shadiversity seems to believe so in his opinion on his "The awesomeness of HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)" video.

      You are right, the topic is very rich and complex, this might not even be the full extent of information you present here cause there may be more!

      And yes grabbing enemy weapons and using jujutsu in conjunction with one's kenjutsu skills is VERY viable in CQC--- It would of been dumb if Samurai didn't have any practical applications of combat like this that is similar to their Knight counterparts. utilized.

      Delete
  5. I guess armor fighting technique became more of a necessity during the 14th century, however why did Japanese sword from the 14th century up to the Edo Period often have wide points?

    Maybe this is where development of weapon diverge between Japan and Europe.



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    1. Well I think that we are too biased when it comes to sword design and armored combats due to the exposure to Hema.

      If we look at every cultures outside Europe, we hardly find swords designed to bypass mail armor. For example in India or in China, despite the long tradition of heavy cataprhacts and so on, we do not see anti armor swords.

      Because a sword is not something that you want to use in this context, unless you are forced to do so.
      Moreover, in the grandscheme of warfare, being forced in an armored duel with only a sword is a very rare instance. As a samurai you will have your main weapon, and your weapon's bearer servants. You will have a dagger made to do the job, and you would likely aim for places uncovered by armors.
      In a thight formation, there isn't much space to use those swords with halfswording.

      The presence of anti armor swords in Europe was dictaded by fashion and especially by armored judicial duels and tournaments, imho. Many Euroepan swords of the period like the falchion and arguably a good amount of oakeshott typology aren't suited to bypass mail, and yet they were weapons of war. A good example is the katzbalger sword, or the greatsword itself.

      Finally, the 14th century in Japan saw the widespread usage of long okissaki on blades, as well as the introduction of most percussive weapon.
      In the 16th century, swords were directly made in naginata naoshi instead of cutting down naginata, so we could see some minor degree of sword specialization towards anti armor duties but again, in my opinion the whole argument "sword design was totally influenced by armor" is flawed and it's only valid (to some degree) in Europe.

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    2. I agree, that swords are not the main weapon that they would use in the battlefield.
      Before the arquebus became common and after armor cover the whole body or after Tosei Gusoku enter general use, how do they defeat the enemy if their armor is resistant to arrow?

      Do melee attack decide the outcome?

      I have often read that plate armor in Europe are resistant to arrows/bolts and the melee decide the battle before pike formation or firearm become standard.

      Delete
    3. What is your opinion on this video?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC5ctg9PLC0

      In 0:43, axe and wooden mallet are used. I often see Edo prints showing Samurai carrying wooden mallet. I think wooden mallets could be good bludgeoning tool, while they are not metal, they could maneuvered well enough and still inflict blunt trauma.

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    4. There are few analysis of battle wounds in the 14th-16th century.
      Arrows played a very important role up untill the mid 16th century; although armors are generally speaking arrow proofs, volleys after volleys of hundreds of arrows increase the chances of getting hit in a weakspot.
      In fact since the 14th century we can read of the first "ashigaru" used as archers, firing in formations (yet arrows were hardly deadly on the hit).

      And as we hit the 15th century, spears and pikes were the most common weapons to cause injuries outside ranged weaponry, and this is the period that saw the rise of pike formations.

      Moreover, although those data are often cited by Conlan and Friday, we have to consider that people who get wounded might not have been the same one wearing heavy suits of armor.

      If we look at Samurai that did plenty of fightings, like Kato Kiyomasa, Honda Tadakatsu and so on, they didn't receive many wounds in their life.
      Generally speaking, the warriors wearing heavy armors didn't suffer any major wounds unless they were hit by a very lucky shot, hit by a spear on horseback or if they were severely outnumbered.

      About that video, I have seen it before. It's hard to judge their performance since I haven't practiced martial arts, but I can tell you that using a big wooden mallet like that is not going to work. It would be too heavy and slow, so while it might be effective when hitting someone, it won't be easy doing that.
      Moreover, once you have swung the mallet, it would be hard to recover fast. All things consider I don't think it is a very valid weapon.
      With such mallet it would be very hard to defend too.

      The wooden mallet (called otsuchi) was used on warfare as a mallet to do carpentry and occasionally to destroy gates, but afaik it was never used intentionally as a weapon, especially the biggest ones.
      However, in the Koyo Gunkan we read of soldiers fitting their spears with a small mallet (possibly of wood) to create a spear/hammer weapon. This would be much more effective and less cumbersome!

      Delete
    5. So the Yumi act like crossbow in Chinese armies.

      Are there any details on Sengoku Period battle from the Onin War to 1550?

      Those would be a good example of armored warfare with barely any firearms, unlike in Europe.



      I actually think the Otsuchi would act like this.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba832LWf9Ec

      It would be hard, but light wood. It is only for delivering blunt force an area and the impact is from the force of the arm, not the weight of the hammer.

      I think it would be like comparing a thin Danish axe with a modern wood chopping axe. Danish axeis large only in area, but actually very thin, which make it far easier to maneuver than a thick wood chopping axe of similar blade area.


      By the way, I just found out that those statue in Horyu-ji Temple is probably Sui Dynasty influenced. You could see the similarity.

      https://collectingchineseceramics.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/mg_1556-1.jpg?w=768

      http://img.redocn.com/sheying/20161117/tangdaiwushirenwu_7462733.jpg

      Delete
    6. Yes there are some random battle accounts of this period; curiously enough it is also the time frame in which the first firearm's wound is recorded. But yeah, spears/bows and rocks accounted for the majority of wounds - although it is fair to assume that the heaviest armored warriors weren't wounded unless with a lucky shot or if they were severely outnumbered.


      About the Otsuchi; while your video looks plausible, afaik those indian maces were used for training and not for warfare, and are still very slow. Another thing is that those hammers in Japan existed and were used as sledgehammer; they were and are very heavy. And being made of wood, they are not well suited to hit armor.
      Moreover, these hammers were used to break and assemble stuff on campaign, and they were smaller compared to the Edo prints oned.
      Also, they saw little to no usage as far as battle records are recorded.
      All things consider I don't think they would make a very good weapon compared to a Japanese warpick or a kanabo for example.

      Btw, good finding for those statues! They looks fairly similar indeed.

      Delete
    7. Well certain later era European Longsword blades aren't that different from "typical" Japanese swords with broad points. Here's one Longsword blade type, popular across Northern Europe throughout the mid-late 15th century - universally agreed among historical researchers and the HEMA community to have been optimized for armor rich environments:
      https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Svante_Nilsson_Sture_Sword_05.jpg

      More similar than different to many shinogi zukuri style Japanese swords with chu (or o) kissaki.

      Sure they're not going to slip through mail rings easily, but both are stout reinforced points optimized to strike hard materials. Wether it be mail (+ kikko in case of Japan), as well as hardened/laquered leather armors. (common in Japan and other East Asian countries). Considering these factors "typical" shinogi zukuri Katanas w/ regular points deserve much more credit imho.

      Speaking of shobu zukuri and naginata naoshi, many Chinese sabres throughout Ming and Qing also had those slender (but thick) iris-leaf shaped points as well - in both ridged and wedge cross section blades.

      Things like katzbalgers and certain falchions are more comparable to oxtail dao or certain broad-bladed Chinese sabres with lots of distal taper, flat cross section & thin tips. Clearly designed for facing cloth armors.

      Delete
    8. @Aden Yang

      That's very true, those designs are clearly not optimized to bypass mail and yet we see plenty of these swords in Europe during the age of plate, where armors was regularly found on the battlefields.
      So they must have been useful nevertheless. In fact, although many people in Europe as in Japan had access to some degree of armor, very tiny % of them had access to a full set capable to encase the whole body.

      Delete
  6. What about bombs and handheld cannons?

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    1. I'm shure that no armor will save you if someone shoot you with a cannon...

      Delete
    2. Therefore, the most effective anti-armor weapons. Should be handheld though. Would be kind of stupid aiming siege weapons at infantry.

      And attrition/ guerilla warfare is even more effective against armored troops.

      Delete
    3. @Armchair skeptic

      Against explosive shell and cannon's balls/grapeshot there is little armor could do. In Japan some small hand held cannons were used against infantry, as I wrote here. Moreover, Japan had a long tradition of using such devices against troops too. Cannons were loaded with grapeshots to smash enemy formations.

      Delete
    4. Mmm yes of course. I was just wondering, given the effectiveness of Ozutsu bullets, more powerful artillery perhaps with some area of effect explosive projectiles might be even more effective.

      Delete
    5. @Armchair yes indeed, I don't think that this style of armor would prevent injuries from very heavy siege engines like cannons and mortars of the late 16th century.
      However they might turn a shrapnel into a wound rather than into an immediate death

      Delete
  7. Yet another fantastic article, thanks you very much! It's really impressive to see how difficult it is to get past a full gear of Tosei Gusoku, it really doesn't seem any less difficult than say a European full plate armor, once again debunking the myths that Japanese armor was light, very open and lacked any form of protection. If I may, I'd like to ask if you plan on doing a specific article on the Manchira. Ever since reading about it on your article on the tosei gusoku, I've always been interested about it. Alas, even Japanese google searches don't yield many results.

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    1. Thank you so much!!
      I have to say that Japanese armor is my favorite topic and I love to write about it, especially when it comes to Tosei Gusoku.

      I will write about it! The manchira is essentially an armored vest worn over or under the armor to cover the armpits zone. It could be made of mail or kikko brigandine, or a combination of the two.
      The armor is usually covered by clothes.
      You can see some examples on my pinterest page:

      https://pin.it/qomnc5bfmessez

      Delete
    2. Now I understand why the Manchira is made that way. The section under the armpit act like a Wakibiki and move upward to cover the armpit when the wearer lift his arm.

      However it did not cover the lower (inner) part of the upper arm and do not form a full sleeve. Do you know why?

      Chinese armor also do not enclose the lower part of the upper arm.
      There are some painting from Yuan and Ming Dynasty showing what looks like Wakibiki, but they also only ocver the armpit.

      Some European plate armor also left that area covered only with mail.

      Is attacking the armpit easier than the lower side of the upper arm?

      Delete
    3. If you thrust into the armpit deep enough, you might be able to pierce the heart, killing the victim quickly. That's why armpits are generally heavily protected.

      Delete
    4. @Joshua,
      Attacking the armpit is easier compared to trying to pierce the portion of the arm which is closer to armpit.

      The fact that the manchira was usually built like that was to avoid hindrance in arm movement, I believe.
      However, that section was usually covered by a mail section attached to the kote, and there is a variation of the kote/manchira called tominaga kote which essentially could be a manchira with a kote directly attached to it.
      Here a mail armor example:

      https://pin.it/2kt5hmstmekv7q

      Delete
  8. I noticed that you add laminar plate on the gap between the forearm and upper arm, may I know where you get an example that have those?

    Also as others have noted, complete Japanese armor seems to be as difficult as period European plate armor to defeat. In fact, most full body armor from various period, places and culture, actually did not leave gap where it is vulnerable, unlike popular opinion on Japanese armor or Asian armor in general.

    One of the advantage in Samurai armor that I notice compared to other full armor design is the adoption of solid curved cuirass that provide more protection than many examples of flat plates used in other armors and also the advanced face protection with integrated laminar neck armor.

    It is pretty much going in the same direction as European armor.


    I am also sure that most full armor are defeated by either grappling or high impact attack delivered with polearm or mace.

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    1. Ideally I wanted to depict this:

      https://pin.it/atpqbjg3p3fzvc

      But then I changed my mind and depicted something like this:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/0a/1a/4a0a1ac4a39dc6c3f37f7a1e884b7a8e.jpg

      Lames in lieu of mail armor are found in the famous Tengu armor preserved in Boston in the Gabriel Muller collection. Granted it's Edo but I talked with a member of the Japanese Armor Society Western branch who said to me that this type of configuration was born in Owari in the 16th century (the same birth place of the Okegawa do). Surely it wasn't common at all but I wanted nevertheless to give a full potential Tosei Gusoku.
      Maybe in the future we will be able to discover more!

      Also yes, it can reach a high level of complexity and body protection indeed. This was the result of a feudal system with a warrior class I believe, where the nobles had the wealth to commission such pieces.
      As far as breastplates and helmets are concerned, there is a study of internal suspension, weight distribution and deflecting curvatures that makes the armor very sturdy and resistant against the weapons of the period.

      Although I made this article in the first place to show how it is possible to defeat warriors wearing those heavy sets, I would never stop stressing how low were the chances for one of them to die on the battlefield. The same Ieyasu was shot but his armor prevented him to die.
      Battles were won due to enemy breaking formations and the less armored men dying due to firearms, arrows and pikes. The samurai that fought were really almost invicible on the fields.

      Delete
    2. @Gunsen

      Speaking of Ieyasu being shot, but remained uninjured due to his armor saving his life. That reminds me--- Wasn't that also the case with Oda Nobunaga as well?

      I highly recall an account where a shinobi from Koka by the name of Sugitani Zenjubō being hired to assassinate him from afar using two matchlock type arquebuses as he fired two consecutive shots at Nobunaga, but was unable to inflict a mortal injury through his armor.

      Really goes to show that money really matters in Japan because it allowed the wealthiest samurai to afford the best tailored pieces of equipment to survive in battle.

      Delete
    3. @Strider
      That's right, I've heard that story too although I don't know if it actually happened, I have to check the Oda chronicles.
      Still, there a lot of factors in terms of early guns vs armor: range, amount of powder, bullet size, armor quality, thickness and shape and so on.
      But you can bet that the wealthy ones could afford a bulletproof armor indeed!

      Delete
  9. Excellent piece, as always!

    The only note is what in premodern context, all these estimations are for model(perfect) situations.
    When variables come into play(uneven quality of craftsmanship, even within the boundaries of the same plate, maintenance, wear, poor lacing, negliance/haste, etc) - actual effectiveness of, say, arrows could be significant enough.

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    Replies
    1. That's true, especially volleys of arrows and bullets. Moreover, in this article I only consider best quality armor and in its best possible condition.

      Delete
  10. There are treatises for use of polearms. I would say the forearms and shins were potentially quite vulnerable to percussive weapons, much more so than the inside of the elbow, especially the shin because the body sits it's entire weight onto the shin posting it in place. Especially the forearm because people use their forearms to protect their face trying to lock and brace their shoulders so that the forearms have as little give as possible.

    I don't agree that anything but a metal plated kanabo is a 'better' percussive weapon than a steel headed weapon like an axe held in one hand. Steel weapons deform targets much better, transfer energy more efficiently and are often lighter, smaller and faster than a percussive weapon made from wood. Small steel heads were a universal solution to cause damage through impact.

    You don't need to be wrestled onto the ground to be killed with a dagger. In 2019 people are still swarmed and stabbed and not all wounds are inflicted after a person has been brought to the ground.

    I don't know about cracking a skull with a wooden weapon through the thickest part of a steel helmet. I would point out though that people have been knocked out cold through their helmet with a gauntlet or wooden shield jammed into their chin or jaw. It seems we are still vulnerable even if fully armoured to a solid blow to the jaw. You could probably knock someone out in a helmet bare handed even if the punch broke your hand and someone who is unconscious or has impairment to their consciousness is no longer dangerous or able to defend themselves.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You raised good points sir!
      I will definitely edit a bit my analysis. However, I have to address few things; while shins and forearms are definitely valid targets, in tosei gusoku armor they are usually covered by solid pieces of metal which could essentially provide good protection. The elbow region instead most of the time is either covered by mail or occasionally by smaller interlocked lames so in this place the armor is less rigid to allow movement of the joint without adding weight, hence why a hit there would be more dangerous.
      But you are right, a strong hit on the lower leg could easily knock someone down (although lower legs are dangerous targets: to reach them you are exposing all your lower torso).

      About a one handed axe, I disagree: a kanabo is heavier and longer, and since it is used with two hands it has more leverage. I'm pretty sure you can be quite fast too with said weapon, and despite not having a small portion of the weapon to concentrate its power, most of the weight is still concentrated on the top end of the weapon. If you read my article about that, you can see that some of them have a much more similar appearence to maces.
      All things considered, because of that and the better techniques you can use with it, I would say it's a better weapon; but with a two handed axe the situation would change indeed.

      You are also right about dagger's combat, although when armor is involved you don't have that many targets to hit, but only few located in hard-to-reach spots so essentially in armored fight, you get closer and this led to wrestling. It is not needed, I agree with that, but most of the time it is what happened when two armored warriors faced each other with daggers.

      And on your last point, the face is definitetly a good target in the context of armored fights.
      Japanese helmets keep your skull safe from the impact, but you are definitely going to feel that especially if it is a massive blow. And a direct hit to the face could seriously damage the foe, that's for sure. I don't think bare hands can do much but any type of weapons, even a sword, could create some serious headache if used full force several times against an helmet.

      Delete
  11. Very interesting read. I was wandering about the quote from Musashi. Do we know if he meant the inability of bow to pierce armor?
    I don't know Japanese, so I didn't read the original, but if I remember correctly, he doesn't specify the reasons. Moreover, wasn't his quote stated from period when archery was long in decline?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Thanks!
      I don't have the original at hand at the moment but I'm quite sure he was talking about armor. The thing is that a bow is still a good and reliable weapon after 35 meters (Yumi bow can shoot over 300 meters with flight arrow) and Musashi specifically talk about 20 ken which is more or less that distance & sieges, so I don't see any other valid context to confirm such a thing - that a bow is useless after that distance.
      Also yes archery wasn't as important as before during Musashi's time but still it was a very important and praised martial art nonetheless.

      Delete
  12. Looking back at this I think there's some stuff that could be added, for example the jingama(war sickle) I call it a little brother of the War pick but just as useful, it could also have a L-shaped side hook that could be used similarly to the jitte/jutte, here's some later made ones.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=jingama&oq=jin&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i61l2j69i60.1603j0j7&client=ms-android-charter-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=YDma5Eh-yP57XM

    And the Kabutowari was also used in combat, kind of a cross between a dagger,jitte and small club.


    Also I think the part about swords could be a bit difference like mentioning pre-Edo swords were thinner, longer and more robust so definitely better against armor plus if we look at some swords during that time chu -kissaki look to me pointier then what we are used to seeing in today's katanas.

    Another thing I come to learn from a guy a while ago is that the tsuba could be used for striking I imagine it would be easier done with a larger one and also depending on the shape could cause some pretty good damage,Matt did say that egg shape or teardrop shaped guard in his Song Dynasty Sword review could be used to punch somebody.

    Another interesting thing is Japanese swords can be used in with grappling techniques or use like a lever similar to longswords, techniques are called kumiuchi-waza.

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    1. I see your points although the difference between a jinkama and a warpick is very marginal and it really depends on specific items; some jinkama have a very thick spined blade so they are more closer to a warpick. But most importantly they are one handed items hence they could not produce much force compared to other weapons.

      As for the kabutowari, I doubt it was ever used in warfare. It's utility I have to say is rater disappointing, since most of the time it has no edges, it's slightly curved so it's not optimal for thrusting and it's extremely light so it doesn't really do much against armor. The tool is used to break multiplated helmets such as sujibachi kabuto by using it as a "can opener" and applying force once the small hook is placed under the helmet's plates.
      It is more useful to prove the strenght of the warrior and most importantly, it is supposed to be used with a helmet that has no wearer so you can see how little its design speaks of battles to me.

      Also be aware to not generalize too much with pre Edo katana: while some where thinner, other where actually much more thick and resilient, but they were hardly generalizable in given set of features and following the trends of the Sengoku periods, depended a lot on who made them, when they were made and so on. Sengoku period swords tend to be very unique.

      To me punching with a tsuba sounds as good way to break your fingers I have to say! It's quite dangerous and you can end up hitting your target with your hand, I do not recommend this: it's much more useful to do so with the pommel of the sword I believe.

      Delete
    2. Still I feel like the jingama deserves a honorable mention apparently it was favored by many Samurai in one I find and in this old thread.

      http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20597

      Still probably the history should be more look into I suppose.

      The Kabutowari I disagree with you on it not being a war weapon(some what) after doing some more research, there were two types dirk-type and truncheon-type, the former be more suited for actual war and the proper name would be hachiwari.

      I remember somebody in one of your comment sections comparing it to a certain Indian blade.


      Here's an antique of it.

      https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-edo-japanese-samurai-32863609

      You're right it wouldn't be able to break a helmet however apparently the name helmet breaker is a western misnomer this thread talks about it's usage.

      https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/7229-tekkan-or-tetsuken-with-kurikata/page/2/

      Pretty interesting only three parts recommend reading the whole thing.

      So does this video a bit the weapon skip to about 1:23.

      https://youtu.be/Z2oJVgCsn7M

      About the katana's Kashira I'm not sure a katana for battle would have that but rather something more of the lines of this.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLlIXYpV4AEV4R1.jpg

      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/788552216002783378/

      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/788552215976097869/

      I remember Yang saying battle katanas could have a pommel with a spike on it for armored combat I've got to ask him about that, I did came across a comment of somebody that mentioned he was able to break a military helmet with a katana's Kashira however.

      Why do agree with you on that however I think it can be said on average katanas of the sengoku era would be thinner than those of later times, among other things like darker in color.

      By the way you mentioned "Sengoku period swords tend to be very unique."

      Got anything that I could read on sengoku swords.


      I got more to say on the tsuba but first I got to find a video.

      Delete
  13. If a samurai fought against a european knight, I understand that the kanabo/tetsubo, and the tsuruhashi would be enough solution, even the Yumi bow considering that in the battle of Agincourt the English archers managed to pass through parts of armor reasonably and in the end they won that battle, not to mention Mongolian bows + maces in Poland, they killed more than 2000 heavy knights. My question is, could some kind of Yari inflict damage on a knight whose armpits and neck are covered by plates? Please answer me, I am extremely curious, thank you.

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