Tosei Gusoku (当世具足) - Body Coverage Explained

Japanese Armor Body Coverage Explained


Warriors of the Takeda Clan donning their armor, Utagawa Sadahide (歌川 貞秀) -  武田勇士揃

As I said before in a previous post, for any serious "Armor Enthusiast", there are some questions that suddenly come to mind when looking at a full harness.
Last time I've covered the weight, today I wanted to focus on the "How much does it protect you?" question.
Now, Japanese Armor is an huge topic; to make this article "short enough", I will speak about some different configurations (the most protective ones - and thus the heaviest) used to protect the warrior on the battlefield of the Sengoku Jidai. This analysis will cover the Tosei Gusoku (
当世具足) type of armor, when it was fully developed, around the early/mid 16th century, and most of the time I will talk about the 25+ kg armor setup.


I've decided to do this post using some anatomic sketches and armor sketches to illustrate how all the armor components worked together to make the richest wearer almost invincible into the battlefield.


Because the average comment about the armors developed in Japan is that "those protective gear were light, with a great number of weaknesses to ensure a good freedom of movement".
This is one of the most annoying stereotype for me; the idea that Samurai armor had many weakspots to make them able to fight easily - as if covering obvious vital spots would have hinder the mobility in a tremendous way. Well, today we will debunk this idea.


The "race" between protection and mobility has always been the most important problem of armorer. In Japan, according to the warrior preference (and budget) a good compromise between these two factors was often made for those who fought on the battlefields.

They did deploy heavy suit of armor to defend themselves, which covered them head to toe; follow me through this article to debunk all the myths regarding Samurai's armor weaknesses.




HEAD




The head is one of the most important part of the body, and in any part of the world during the "Middle ages", head protection was always the priority.




Around the early to mid 16th century, a new type of battlefield helmet was created in Japan; the Hineno Zunari Kabuto ( 
日根野頭形兜 ). Being made with large plates (usually 3 to 4) it was easier to make and offered great protection against any type of weapons: swords, polearms of various type and projectiles weapons.
In this specific draw, the head, which was "suspended" with a padded liner called Ukebari
(浮張), (in a pretty identical fashion to European helmets) is completely covered by the Hachi, or the bowl, and the nape and neck area are protected by the Shikoro (), a close fitted model which was called Hineno.

 
Attached to the helmet there is a mask, a regular 
Menpō (面頬) which enclosed the face, with a Guruwa (or Kuruwa - 曲輪) , the Japanese "gorget". The Guruwa protects the throat by covering the front and the sides with metal lames.
The cord used to fasten the mask was made of thick silk, sometimes with a core of mail rings or hemp.

When wearing this setup, the major weaknesses is the area of the mouth and the section in between the helmet and the mask, although it was essential to let the warrior see and breathe in order to be able to fight. When facing a volley of arrow or arquebus fire, all he had to do was looking at the ground to allow his helmet peak (Mabisashi - 
眉庇) to cover his eyes.

Is also possible that a spear point might get in the zone between the mask and the shikoro, but it won't deal much damage; most of the face and throat were enclosed by the mask itself, and this is still a quite rare event due to the angle needed to strike.
Sometimes, to add even more defense to the inside of the shikoro, a "mail curtain" called Shitajikoro ( 下錣 ) was added underneath. Sometimes the Shitajikoro could be made of kikko brigandine or lamellae too. It is usually seen on the widest shikoro types, design to deflect incoming strikes to the sides.



Talking specifically about the mask, the most common combinations were two;


On the left you could see a full Menpo with a Guruwa: this was defenitely the most protective configuration. However, even a lighter and less restrictive Hanbo (半頬 ) with a normal Tare ( ) offered enough protection to the face. The sides of the throat and back of the neck were protected by a brigandine collar made of Kikko (亀甲), with metal plates sewn inside a padded cloth.


TORSO


The second most important section of the body to cover is the torso; almost every vital organ is there, so ensuring a good protection is fundamental to survive.


One of the most important piece of equipment to wear is the Manchira (満智羅)
. It was worn under (and sometimes over) the armor to cover the armpits, the shoulders and the neck, but also to provide padding under the armor. There were many configurations: brigandine, mail or a combination of the two. Sometimes they were also covered with clothes like hemp or silk brocade. This is roughly the equivalent of the European arming doublet. Sometimes, the Kote - arm harness - were attached directly to the manchira, making the process of donning armor much faster.
In addition to that, a basic padded Shitagi or Kamishimo was worn as garment under the armor.


Mail armor Manchira

A cloth covered Manchira

But the most important piece of armor protecting the body was the Dou ():






This specific illustration depicts an Hotoke Dou (仏胴), a style emerged in the mid 16th century. It was made with a single thick breastplate and a backplate, hinged at one side. It was usually internally padded around the shoulder area, although wearing a Manchira underneath was already enough.
It came with a collapsible set of lames that made the Tassets (Kusazuri - 
草摺), which protected the upper leg, the groin and the back too. The lames composing the armor were slightly doomed, to fit the leg anatomy and prevent sliding to some extent when fighting.

The armor for the torso was the most strongest part of the armor: its shape deflected weapons attack and could even stop early firearms shots.

However, looking at the picture is easier to see that there are two main weak spots: 




Here in the breast area you can see a basic type of the upper section of the breastplate, the Muna-ita (胸板). It's easy to notice that the area around the throat is essentially not protected, neither the area around the arms, the armpit, both in the front and at the sides. In addition to that, the cords holding the armor are exposed and could be easily cut by swords.

To solve these problems, there were several configurations;


The throat was again protected by the Tare (or the Guruwa) of the mask, and the cords were covered by separated metal plates hinged or laced to the armor, called Gyouyou (杏葉
).
These two metal plates also covered a little the so called frontal armpit area, working like small "besagews"; some armors like the one of Soma Yoshitane (相馬義胤) had a double pair of Gyouyou which covered even more the area. In addition to that, the upper edges ( the gold edges) of the armor were rolled and reinforced with lacquer to make a "blade stopper" surface.




Here you can see a full close up of an armor in Lisbon, Portugal, with Kote, a Tare, Gyouyou and Sode to cover these zones mentioned before.

Wearing a Manchira underneath also covered most of these zones:



And last but not least, separated hanging plates called Wakibiki (脇曵) could be worn both over or under the armor to cover the sides of the armpit:



While talking for the lower torso, in the section of the abdomen is clear that there is a gap in between the breastplate and the tassets, a "mid-riff".
This zone is a dangerous area; with the development of Tosei Gusoku, this gap was increased to ensure a better range of movements of the hips and for comfort. However it came with a price; there is indeed a space that doesn't protect the low abdomen and also the cords holding the tassets, the Yurugi no ito, are exposed:




There were many solutions to this problem; is fair to notice that even in the "basic" scenario, were the gap was left there, a thick and heavy padded silk belt, the Uwa-obi (), was worn over the cords, protecting both the silk laces and the abdomen. Sometimes the belt could have been made of mail - the so called Kusari Obi ():


But this wasn't the best and the most protective solution.
An additional plate could have been added to the latest section of the Dou, the Hotte, fastened with rivets working in slots. This section overlapped with the tassets, but didn't protect directly the laces. However, the silk section could have been protected by the obi belt.
Sometimes the additional metal section was directly placed on top of the laces section, covering them entirely.

An armor in the Royal Armouries of Leeds has this particular feature;






Another practical and really defensive solution was replace the Yurugi no ito section with solid plates. This avoided both problems of the gap and the cords.
The famous armor of  Akechi Hidemitsu (明智秀満) exposed at the Tokyo National Museum has this feature.




The tassets present two splits at the first two rows. It is assumed that this was done for thrusting the katana and wakizashi underneath the kusazuri. This was probably the most defensive solution.
Another simple and quite easy configuration was to replacing the laces with mail or kikko brigandine sections, both as standalone piece but also as patches:




With this configuration both laces and low abdomen were protected.
Last but not least again, under the armor, an arming garments similar to a manchira was worn around the belt zone, made of kikko or mail sewn inside a padded clothes. This could have been worn both under or over the yurugi no ito; it was called Kyushu ate.



ARMS

Moving to the limbs, if you paid enough attention you would have seen that in any configurations mentioned since now there wasn't a proper defense for the armpit itself, a zone which by its nature needed to be protected by a flexible material.
You might already guessing how the Japanese solved this problem.




Any way, the arms were important body parts but not as vital as the torso or the head, so the protection was slightly lower both in terms of weakspots and thicknesses of the plates used.
However, heavy style of Kote existed too:






This type of Kote is known as Tsutsu Kote (筒籠手), and were quite similar to European arm harness. Is the most defensive configuration of Kote.
The lower arms (under the elbow) was protected by three hinged plates which covered the arm for 3/4 of its total surface, leaving a small section on the inside, which was protected by mail armor.


The space in between the upper and lower arm was filled with mail which connected the lower with the upper plates. On the elbow region, a circular plate protected the elbow (Hijigane - 臂金): although not as protective (and as restrictiveas European couter, it was there to prevent heavy blows to directly break bones underneath. However, this is one of the most susceptible zone against blunt force damages.

The inside of the elbow is probably one of the weakest part of the armor. The mail pattern used here (Koushi-gusari - 腰鎖), in order to achieve maximum mobility and no restrictions, had some squared holes. The holes dimension varies a lot, on some armor they are quite small ( less than 1 cm squared)
, but they are always present.

This is a typical Japanese design, a compromise needed in order to reduce the pressure of the mail on the joint when it flexes, to increase the degree of flexion and extension and to reduce the weight too. 
However, it is fair to notice that this pattern would still protect from cuts, and when the arm is bent over, the squared holes in the pattern get "stretched" to minimize the gaps.

The upper arms is protected again by three hinged plates which covered the biceps area in the same way as the lower armor. The shoulder was protected by other small plates laced together. This zone of the arm was usually less armored, and rarely big plates were used like in this example: most of the time to cover the upper arm and the shoulder, mail and small plates or brigandine patterns were used.
This was done because the area was generally protected by the pauldrons, the Sode (
).







In the 14th century, new types of Sode were developed, which roughly resembled European pauldrons in function.
Some of them were slightly doomed to fit the arm anatomy, other were hinged to cover better the entire surface, like in this example. They are called Tsubo Sode (
壷袖). The Sode were made of laced lames to achieve maximum mobility, and offered a double protection with the Kote in the upper arm area. Sometimes they were directly fixed to the arm and to the shoulder, to avoid any lateral movements and to allow the plates to stay in place.


However, even more sophisticated, heavier and protective style of Kote existed, entirely made of plates, where the space in between the lower and upper arm was covered by several lames made of kozane laced together to allow flexibility, instead of mail; here is the example:




All the right reserved to Renbu Antique

The armpit itself was protected by a section of mail attached to the Kote, called Soe-Wakibiki (添脇引) which worked like European voiders. Sometimes metal plates were added in the mail pattern.
Now, moving to the inside:





The inside is probably one of the weakest part of the armor ( but also one of the less exposed). They actually present the same mail pattern used in the inner elbow region, to avoid any possible hindrance. This style is called Uchimawashi-gote (打廻籠手). Anyway, this pattern was still able to stop cuts, which were the most common attack one could receive in this zone; a direct thrust, given the dimension of the arm and the speed at which it moves in combat, is highly unlikely. This solution also decreased the weight of the arm harness.

It is important to highlight that on some example, 
full mail was used in lieu of the Koushi-gusari for the inside of the elbow and on the inside of the arm. Sometimes even small plates were sewn on the inside to add further protection, like in this example






Moving to the hands, there were several configurations developed in Japan to protect this part of the body.
As you may already know, the role of archery was really important in Japan, and thus the fingers needed to be free in order to operate a bow, and later on, firearms. However, exceptions were made.





This is the standard type of Japanese gauntlet, the Tekou (手甲). The hands and the fingers were covered by plates, while the wrist by mail to allow better mobility. On most examples, only the thumb is fully covered by plates, while the others fingers are exposed. It wasn't a serious issue since, when holding a weapon, the fist was closed.
However, sometimes mail or leather gauntlets were worn undearneath to give some protection to these fingers.
But is fair to notice that others configurations existed:






This is a type of Japanese style miten gauntlet. The construction is similar to a standard Tekou, but more plates were used to cover the fingers usually exposed. The plates were connected through mail armor. All gauntlets armor pieces were also sewn to a foundation of clothes like hemp or silk.



Another type of miten type of gauntlets, probably inspired by European models, was used in Japan. Is quite rare, and I'm not sure if it was ever used during the period of warfare; there is a pair preserved at the Met, and they are dated Edo period. A similar version of these type of gauntlets was directly connected with mail to the vambrace, instead of being detached. Anyway, it is interesting to notice how the lames overlapped, connected by crossed laces instead of mail.



A final configuration with separated plates to protect the fingers connected by mail armor was also used in Japan. It was quite rare to see this configuration, but there are few surviving elements presenting the fingers covered in plates. These plates were directly sewn to a leather gauntlet underneath.



LEGS





The final body part we are going to consider are the lower limbs, namely legs and feet. The Japanese, given the climate and terrain conditions in which they fought, are quite famous for their lack of lower legs protection; but we actually know that exceptions to this rule existed.
Is worth notice that the groin and waist area is protected by the tassets which are not present in my final drawings.



The tights were covered with the Haidate (佩楯), an apron style of leg armor. It was placed on the waist, under the Dou, and then connected to the breastplate by the loop you can see on the belt zone. 

The protection usually started few centimeters below the waist, since this area was covered by the tassets. Most of the time cloth reinforced by bands of leather was used in this zone, sometimes the armor was connected to the belt by mail pattern, but this was almost never done.

The armored zone in this example, is composed by medium sized plates (Ita haidate -
板佩楯 ) sewn to a cloth foundation and connected through crossed laces. The plates overlapped slightly, offering better protection and allowing the pieces to be wrapped around the legs.
Some Haidate covered 3/4 of the legs, leaving only the inside and the back of the tight unprotected. The apron was taken in place by two straps tied to the leg, called Fungomi (
踏込み), occasionally covered in mail.
An additional layer of mail garments could cover the inside an the back of the leg, but I haven't included it in the picture above.
The Haidate usually covers the knee zone, overlapping with the knee guard of the Suneate.




The Suneate (臑当) were the piece of equipment dedicated to the protection of the lower legs. This configuration I've drawn is called Tsutsu Suneate (筒臑当), and is made with three plates hinged together to fit the leg anatomy. The knee is enclosed by three separated plates which forms the Tateage (立挙) and it is also covered by the Haidate; with this overlapping, when the knee is bent over, no body part is exposed.

The knee guard is connected to the rest of the shinguard by laces, to make it flexible. Sometimes mail was used in lieu of the laces. The armor was held in place with additional cords.

One detail that is usually seen on Japanese greaves is the fact that they leave the back of the lower leg exposed. However, an additional plate could be worn to cover this area, it was called Yoborogane (
膕金) (the black plate in my sketch).
During the late Muromachi period, mail instead of plate was preferred to protect the back.

Finally, the feet were protected by the Japanese sabatons, the Kogake (
甲懸). Sometimes made entirely of brigandine or mail, plate and mail was the most common combination. The plates were hinged and connected with mail sections, in a similar way as Kote and Tekou were made.
Under the armor components, lightly padded clothes like the Kyahan (
脚絆), Kobakama (小袴) or the Tsubo hakama (壷袴) (a combination of the aforementioned garments) were worn to provide basic protection (these garments are not present in my drawings).
Here you can see the full setup:





FINAL SUMMARY


If you managed to read up to now, I have to thank you for your time; I hope you enjoyed this detailed analysis, although long and sometimes too technical.
Anyway, I wanted to spend few sentences to sum up all the weaknesses you could encounter when facing an heavy style of Japanese late armor with the most protective configuration.




A  black and withe sketch made by me to show you the heaviest and most protective possible configuration of Tosei Gusoku. Proportions and details are not entirely accurate but it could give you a good idea.


Head: The zones in between the eyes and on the mouth is not protected by any type of armor. The mask itself doesn't protect too much against heavy blows.


Torso: The frontal armpits are protected by secondary layer of protection like mail or flexible brigandine, that could be pierced to some extent. The armpit itself is protected by mail which has the same problem.
The groin are exposed by attacks coming from the ground.


Arms: The section in between the plates of the lower and upper arm is made essentially of mail, which could be pierced to some extent and doesn't protect too much against heavy blows. The inside of the elbow and the inside of the arm are protected by a mail pattern, which could prevent cuts but will suffer against piercing and percussive weapons.
The inside of the hand is not protected by any type of armor.

Legs: The zone under the tassets are protected by clothes and the lames of the armor could slide off leaving this area exposed. The inside and back of the leg is usually not protected by armor, neither the plant of the feet nor the back of the knee.


As you can see the "weakspots" on later armor are quite small in number an hard to reach or to exploit ( you can see my article about mail armor here.) This is why new polearms and techniques were developed during this century of warring states, and I have discussed that topic here.
If you are interested in seeing the real configurations that inspired my drawings, please feel free to have a look at my personal pinterest page.
If you liked this article please feel free to share it or leave a comment, I'll appreciate it!
Thank you,
Gunbai

Comments

  1. Nice analysis of Tosei Gusoku! It is much more in-depth than my comparison articles, the protective qualities of a maximally-equipped tosei gusoku actually exceeded my expectations (I am only slightly knowledgeable in Sengoku armour though). I am especially impressed by how cleverly Japanese protected the sides of their necks as well as armpits.

    I think Japanese actually had pretty good lower limbs protection overall (more-or-less full thighs, knees, calves, and feet coverage, at least from the front), all the while minimalize restriction on leg movements.

    An interesting observation is that some Chinese armours, particularly those derived from Liang Dang Kai (兩當鎧) including some "Cataphract" armours, actually have the same issue as the Do, although instead of developing Gyouyou they simply created oversized pauldrons to cover everything.

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    1. Thank you! I have to say that I wanted to include as much information as possible without writing an entire book. In the future I will cover each single armor component in dedicated posts! Anyway, your analysis was really informative and well made too!

      People often see half set of armors and makes wrong conclusion on Japanese armor; to get a good idea on how much the body could have been covered I've spent many hours reading books and doing research. For example, pictures of Kote with fingers plates were not available online until few years ago.

      The design of the Liang Dang Kai surely arrived in Japan; early Tankoo (短甲) armor had that feature; I would say that early armor were indeed 100 % directly influenced by Chinese example.
      https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKSyKUhDYCRkFnYrnc6Dy2P9bUCqDoutVhBwuTz8bgOoFO_119

      It is indeed a good design in my opinion. In Japan, Sode did replace that style of shoulder guards for unknown reason, but I think it has to do with mobility (although I'm not sure at all).
      In addition to that, if the Sode were not tied at the arm but only at the shoulder, they could slide to cover the armpit area:

      https://www.pinterest.jp/pin/210050770104710870/

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    2. Off topic, but I think you should switch to a larger and more readable font (a sans-serif font such as Arial), and set the comment section to left-aligned.

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    3. Thank you for the feedback! Yes I've noticed too that the comment section and the text is kinda awkward; as soon as I started this blog I've met difficulties with the CSS and the HTML code. The result of the drop down menu is not the one I wanted, and apparently that menu creates some interference with my work. I'll try to fix it!

      Delete
  2. Did the Somen ever used in battle?

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    1. Well there is actually a debate if Somen were used or not, but I suspect that they weren't; the forehead armor would be "awkward" to worn over an helmet and a Somen alone won't protect as an helmet + hanbo/mempo combination. They were mostly used for heraldry and display of wealth/skill of the armor maker. I will write an article in the future about Somen armor!

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    2. For the opening in the mouth, there is this example.

      https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ff/4c/04/ff4c04a18cee75054418f0d2d32f6639--samurai-armor-tatami.jpg

      Do you know when the Japanese start to use laminar and plate armor instead of lamellar armor?

      Is it after the Portuguese introduce firearm?

      From what I found the Japanese already already have laminar and plate before the Portuguese arrived.

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    3. Yes I know that example of mail covering the mouth in a mempo; is inside the Ann & Gabriel Barbier-Mueller Museum. However is dated from the Edo period and is the only example with that additional mail protection, so I've decided to not include it in this article.

      The usage of plate and laminar armor is kinda complicated to date; if we do not include Tanko armor (which were made like the lorica segmentata and were used in the 6th and 7th century) there are mentions of Dou armor made of plate's rows inside the Taiheiki book (14th century) and they started to be widely used during the mid 15th century, so definitively before the arrival of the Portuguese. Also, the oldest Okegawa Dou construction is signed 1535.

      Firearms weren't the real problem; plates and lames armor are much faster to produce compared to lamellar, and when the constant period of warfare started, the demand of armor was huge, so the armorer started to use these innovations to speed the process and make more armors.

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    4. I asked about the plate and laminar because almost every example I see is from the late 16th century and after.

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    5. Well it is true that the majority of armors (be it plate, laminar or lamellar ) that you could find are post 16th century, with a good 80% being made during the peaceful Edo period. Most of the pre 16th century armor were preserved in shrines and temples, donated as a gift and thus highly ceremonial.

      However the "academic consensus" regarding the use of plates and laminar armor is that they started to use them in the 15th century. There are some scattered hints which make them appear in the late 14th century, but they were common only in the mid 15th. Riveted plates like the Okegawa Dou were made since the late 15th/early 16th century, full plates like the Hotoke Dou were made during the mid 16th century.

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    6. http://www.forensicfashion.com/1467MuromachiSamuraiArmor.html

      http://www.forensicfashion.com/files/1467MuromachiSamuraiArmorMabeeGerrer01a.jpg

      This armor is said to be from 1500. I don't know if it is true though.

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    7. Dating Japanese armors is extremely difficult; you have to consider that many suits which were made in the 16th century were recycled and refurnished in the Edo Period or completely restored, so unless signature or date in the armor, is hard to establish exactly the date.

      There is just one "Saihai no kan" which is the ring on the breastplate; usually Edo period armors have two of these rings, so it could be pre-Edo. It might be 1530 as well as 1590. I think that they choose to write 1500 to highlight that it was made in the 16th century, not in that specific date. The helmet look like a late 15th century Kabuto on the other hand.

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  3. Did the Haidate change over time? Yoroi Hakama is shown in the Nanbokucho Period, but not much in later period.

    Did the Japanese make leg defense the way make the kote, that is trouser with plates joined by mail?

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    1. Yes.
      Haidate started as mail and plates type of protection; I've talked briefly about this in my article about mail armor in Japan, but I will have a dedicated article in the future ( as you can see there is much to talk about! ).

      They were also made in the form of lamellar armor in the early 14th century, this style is called Hodo Haidate :
      http://www.katchu-no-bi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Haidate-3.jpg

      Later on they were assembled with Iyozane, with brigandine-like construction ( Kawara Haidate) and then with plates in a coat of plates-like construction (Ita haidate) as the one I've shown in this article.

      There are also a lot of styles which resemble some styles of Kote with mail and plates which were used in the 16th century; like the Kusari Haidate and the Koshino Haidate but also a lot of mail and plates structure which doesn't have a specific names.

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    2. There is this one sentence which is almost always said when debate about Japanese weapon and armor happen.

      "The Japanese have low quality metal" or "The Japanese is poor in metal , sot their armor have a lot of leather and bamboo"

      I think both of this is unlikely.

      I don't know about the quality, but I think Japan should have a large amount of metal to equip a large amount of soldiers.

      The Yamato sent 32.000 to 42.000 soldiers to Korea in the 600s.

      The battle of Bubaigawara have a lot of people on both sides. (Not sure about exaggeration.)

      I mean even the opening battle of the Onin War have 80.000 men on both sides. The forces are just from 2 clans.

      If Japan are so poor in metal, how do they equip such armies?

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    3. Well it depends on the context; if we speak with modern age terms in mind, yes, Japanese artifacts in the 16th century were low in quality and the techniques used to smelt iron were rather old fashioned... but that could be said for every other metal artifacts in the world!

      With 16th century terms and context the story is a different one.
      I'm planning to write a long article (my next one) to debunk those annoying myths;
      As far as the quality is concerned, Japanese ores weren't particularly impure or low quality, the Satetsu is actually low in phosphorus (which is a bad element for steel) compared to the ores used in India or in Europe.

      There are also few metallurgic studies which highlight that the amount of slag (impurities) were low in some Japanese artifacts of the 16th century, closed to the 0%.

      As far as the quantity of steel is concerned, that wasn't a major issue since the modern age. Iron and steel were rare and expensive all over the world, especially in the middle ages: this is why recycling was extremely important. The Japanese traded Iron with the Chinese and with the Europeans.
      Here there are some numbers about swords production during the 15th century:
      https://markussesko.com/2013/11/01/japanese-sword-trade-with-ming-china/

      Although these swords were low quality and cheap, it is a proof that they were able to mass produce swords without industrial techniques and were able to make an average of 17 swords per day, with a total number of 128000 swords in a century; and this is only a fraction of the total iron production in Japan. So I doubt they were poor in iron within a pre modern age context, and there are plenty of evidences to suggest this which I will use in my next article!

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  4. In Japanese armor history, I found several gaps in information about armor

    - Before Kofun Period

    - After Kofun Period to Heian Period

    - Nanbokucho Period to mid 16th century.

    I have search many websites, but the information is often too generic.
    I think the best examples of full Japanese armor should be in the period of 1350-1550, but I find few of images about this period.

    Why did the Japanese abandon Kofun armor and then shift to lamellar and then shift to plate again?



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    1. I understand you; I have been in this situation too!

      For that depth of knowledge you have to rely on Japanese sources.
      The English information available online is very limited; this is why I made this article in the first place!

      If you want to have an overview on those "gaps", you need to read one of Yoshihiko Sasama's book: they are detailed and full of illustrations; a lot of information you can read in this blog came from there. But they are only in Japanese... there is also another Japanese book full of useful illustrations that also have some English in it, it's called "History of Japanese Armor" and it's divided into 2 volumes, but is not 100% accurate and there are few wrong things I was able to see in the previews.
      Also, I'm actually planning to write about these topics, but it requires time.

      The best examples of Japanese full armor in terms of sophistication and protection is the one you could find in this article, from the 1530s onward, in my opinion.

      So to answer your question very briefly because the space in the comment is limited, they switched to lamellar armorat the end of the 6th century, because the Koreans did so in the first place, and lamellar was very popular in Mainland Asia; the Japanese of these periods were heavily influenced by them.
      Also because lamellar is more flexible and better suited to horsemanship and horse archery compared to the Tanko plate design.

      Then they stick to lamellar because they were able to make it quite rigid and yet flexible at the same time due to lacquer hardening, and it was very effective, but also because the military system started to be decentralized, and lamellar suit were much more easier amd cheaper to make (just like you don't see the Lorica Segmentata in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire).

      However, by the 14th and 15th century they started to experiment again with metal plates, due to technology being better, and after the Onin war and the beginning of Sengoku, the demand of armors was so high that the old lamellar making system was too slow to keep up. The war campaigns were also longer, and the lacings got ruined very fast battle after battle. So they stick to riveted and full plates, and then some of these design were also influenced by European armor, for fashion most of the time, just like Korean and Chinese armors in the Kofun period.
      Hope that this is extensive enough but if you want to know more feel free to ask again!

      Delete
    2. In my opinion Japanese armor in the 16th century follow the same trend as European ones. Thicken the cuirass and lighten the rest. If you are shot in the face, no amount of armor will suffice. Thicken the limbs to withstand bullet, it will be overweight.

      For example, the kote is not fastened on the body as previous Kamakura and Nanbokucho ones, it will leave a gap in the armpit which to be covered with another piece.

      The Tekko and upper arm guard change into to splint and mail, often more mail than plate.

      The Suneate is now plated mail with kikko.

      The Haidate just cover the front and often hang loosely.

      In my opinion the only thing that improve is the cuirass, hand armor, Sode and maybe Kogake.

      It is probably the reason why people often point out the gaps and visually light construction in Japanese armor.

      Delete
  5. The Kofun Period already contain all development needed for a full body Japanese armor. What is missing is just face and neck armor, maybe finger armor and armpit.

    They have leg armor that protect the front and the back, Manica that also protect the back of the palm, large pauldron, gorget, large plate tonlet that cover the groin, steel faced tower shield and plate horse chamfron.

    They even have metal clasp on the cuirass, just like European armor. It is pretty much European tonlet armor with open face helmet.

    I suppose this change in warfare had something to do with the change inthe Heian Period.

    Plate change to lamellar, crossbow become fewer until it is gone completely, shield to Sode, conscript army to feudal army and so on.

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  6. If I may criticize the sketch of your maximal samurai armor, I would replace some part or change it with an older set of armor.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/65122

    I am sure you know about this scroll made in 1400.

    If you see the Kote, they have large plates that cover the forearm, upper arm and the gap in the elbow. The mail also cover the inside of the arm. Plate Suneate with rigid knee guard is standard.

    The Haidate is tubular and cover the front and the back of the thigh, the bottom part is divided into lames to cover the knee joint while allowing freedom of movement there.

    The common soldier have patterned trouser, although maybe it is not Yoroi hakama.

    The shoulder is protected with a small plate pauldron (or large Sode), the armpit protected with Sendan no ita and kyubi no ita, the groin is covered with the kusazuri of the O yoroi? (or Yoroi maru?), the Kogake is not present here (but it exist in the 14th century) and the Do would have a vertical plate that prevent horizontal cut from hitting the neck.

    The only thing less protective would be the cuirass (which in the 14th-15th century could be laminar already, so not far from plate), the finger and the nose, maybe the Kikko collar in the back of the neck, but the wide Kabuto should prevent cuts on the back.

    Even with the deficiencies, it is still made in the beginning of the 15th century which mean there could be improvement during the century, which is why I said the best example of full armor would be in the 1350-1550. The best in protection against firearm would be 1530s onward.

    Overall, I think this is like comparing 15th century European man at arm armor with 16th century pikeman armor. One is specialized for melee and the other for protection against ranged weapon while maintaining weight and maneuverability.

    By the way, are there armors that is completely unique to the Edo Period?

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    Replies
    1. Wow, I'm impressed; you raised many interesting points and it also seems that you have a lot of knowledge on this topic, which is great! But let's start with order:

      - It is true that towards the Keicho Era (1596-1615), there was a trend to maximize protection against firearms by thickening helmets and breastplates and lightening limbs armors, but we still see example of heavy armors nevertheless, with plates covering the majority of the body.
      You still have Tsutsu Kote and Tsubo Suneate, Ita Haidate, Kogake, Mempo and even Kote with plates in the fingers. You also have Tosei Sode and all the additional arming garments.
      It is true that some Kote were actually made to be fastened directly in the lower lame of the Sode, leaving a huge gap in the armpit area, but on the other hand in the 1550s-70s you have the creation of the Tominaga Sashinuki gote, which is a one piece Manchira + wakibiki + kote, so everything is connected and well protected by plates, mail and brigandine.
      The same is also true for the Suneate, although you have the Shino or even the Etchuu suneate in this period, you still heave Tsubo suneate with plate on the Tateage and a back plate, as I have drawn in my sketches; even the Haidate, if worn correctly, were actually able to encased 3/4 of the wearer legs, with a brigandine/lamellar type of armor.

      - I agree with you with the fact that the Kofun period had excellent armors designs, with a full body coverage that would only came back in the 14th century. What they were missing was only face armor, armpit protections, finger protections and a flexible type of armor able to cover the joints, like mail.
      The Tanko also had a segmented plated structure, which was also integrated with other lamellar pieces that gave those warriors one of the best armor of the time.
      The changes in the political structure during the Heian period are definitely the main issue here.

      - I am aware of that picture, it's one of the few (if not the only one) that correctly represents the gears of the late 14th and 15th century.
      I am not 100% satisfied with my final sketch too, but I am not an artist and unfortunately the warriors depicted there are from the 1400s and not the 1500s which was the main topic of this article; I might consider doing another sketch in the future!

      With that being said, I'm fully aware of the level of protection afforded by the Samurai armor of the 14th and 15th century; in fact I might consider writing an article like this one but with late 14th and 15th century armor, since even in this case, said armor are extremely underestimated even by scholars.

      However, there are few details that, in my opinion, makes the armor of the 16th century better.
      You have much better developed arming garments with kikko brigandine, which wasn't available until the 16th century, and the plated structure as well as the shape of the Okegawa, Hotoke and Sendai dou is much better compared to the one used in the late 14th century. The same is true for the later helmet styles. You also have, in some rare cases, plates connecting the forearms with the upper arm, like the picture I have posted above in the article.
      This means that the cuirass, helmet, tassets and haidate react better against shock traumas. You also have less silk lacings, and I can go on with all of these small details.
      That being said, the foundation of Tosei Gusoku armor were already there in the Dou maru of the 14th and 15th century!

      - Yes, there are some unique Edo period armor; aside from Tosei Gusoku excessively decorated, there are some hybrid Oyoroi/Tosei armor, and some exotic armors that goes under the "isei-gusoku“ (異製具足) name. Some of these armors are made with fish scales (gyorin zane or funate gusoku), other are front opening armors and other wade made with lamellae all hinged together. Also, most of the Yoroi Katabira (a.k.a hidden armors) were made and used in the Edo period.

      Delete
  7. I found this picture of a Kofun haniwa.

    http://www.orjach.org/wp-content/uploads/Fig152.jpg

    It seems they have handguards on their sword as well. The haniwa wear what I said as a Manica, it's lamellar, but no reason for it to not be made from laminar too.

    There is another one.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/63/59/4f6359caa246b8b6a5cd062b3061da15.jpg

    While the Manica didn't cover the armpit, you can practically cover the armpits without mail.

    https://webarchives.tnm.jp/imgsearch/show/C0010653


    I agree with your conclusion about the 16th century armor, it amaze me that Japanese armor as a whole is even more sophisticated than I think before.

    That Kote is the heaviest one I ever see, however the 14th century one is made of solid plate on the forearm and the upper arm and seems to be in standard use.

    I found this hinged Somen, seemed sophisticated for Japanese face armor.

    http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/11765-unique-koto-era-somen/

    Would the Menpo protect against horizontal cut to the face, because it seems the nose will redirect the cut to the forehead. With the Somen, there is no chance any hit glancing to the forehead and it can still be used with a helmet.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Giappone%2C_elmo_e_protezione_per_collo%2C_1512_ca.JPG

    This Edo Period Tengu like Menpo is the only Japanese face armor I found that didn't follow the human face.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/de/4f/74de4fd8d551498dbb2c4adc3a0aaff8--tengu-samurai-armor.jpg

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    Replies
    1. Kofun period armor was extremely well developed indeed; they also used tubular plate vambraces too in that period; other information can be also seen on Gaya Korea armors, which had the same design.
      Also, this is the first example of a knuckle bar handguard on ancient Asian sword I'm able to see; thank you so much for sharing!!

      The oversized pauldrons could cover the frontal armpit quite well; this is why they were kept in China.

      I think that Japanese armor is highly understimated online; I'm glad that you were able to learn something new here!! Also, the Tsutsu gote style originated in between the 14th and 15th century, so it was already available in those periods; however, they didn't have the hinged structure capable to encase the whole arm in the early models, which were more similar to the famous Yoshitsune kote (just one plate on the outside of the arm).

      Well, I would write something about mempo in the future, they could actually stop cuts; the main problem with wearing a Somen is that a lot of helmet of the time had already a plate under the mabizashi to cover the forehead:

      https://pin.it/g3faw67ymlf3um

      https://pin.it/ju2d5wc7idnjep

      https://pin.it/zgj6cmmhxycsm6

      So it might be awkward to were another metal gear under the metal plates.

      Yes, tengu mempo are quite unique and rare, but most of the time, it was made to fit the human face, so that example is quite unique!

      Delete
    2. Another Asian sword handguard on Han Dynasty sword.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/12/3c/a1123c1f81f6510e739181e79e5230c2.jpg

      There are actually difference between Korean and Japanese armor of this time, but maybe it is because I haven't seen enough.

      Korean ones have taller helmet and standing collar neck guard (which is similar as the one appearing in China in the same period, and appear earlier in Central Asia), I have never seen this feature on Kofun armor.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/af/67/24af67ff981eb55d97e92a024eb10713.jpg

      http://m.kocis.go.kr/CONTENTS/BOARD/images/Gimhae_History_03-k(1).jpg

      They also have solid plate, not jut small strips riveted together.

      https://t1.daumcdn.net/cfile/tistory/135E784F4FA11C8924

      Those are all Korean features, which from what I see did not appear in Japanese Kofun armor.

      However Kofun armor have their own features too.

      The flexible arm armor in the previous is never depicted in Korean armor of the period.

      Separate gorget is also Japanese.

      Full protection leg armor is also Japanese only.

      https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5555/30762835676_d3ca7b6115_b.jpg

      https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/30167733894_e01de81ae5_b.jpg


      All of this remind to ask something though,

      While most of the gaps in Japanese armor can be covered, I found the neck joint to always be the one that is most open in Japanese compared to armor of other cultures.

      They seem to not have armor that completely cover the head, neck and the shoulder in one piece like a mail hood.

      There is always gap in the side of the Kabuto behind the Menpo, I know there is this armor that protect the neck.

      https://03.imgmini.eastday.com/mobile/20180614/d17d1065db0b9eba84f3684305a83e33_wmk.jpeg

      Still in grappling, the enemy can grab the Kabuto and stab the side of the head.


      Delete
    3. Thank you for that picture of the Han sword; it would be useful in the future!

      Yes there are some unique Korean features, like the high lamellar collar, but I have to say that the design is quite similar; also, as far as I am aware, bigger plates weren't developed yet at that time. What you see are relatively small plates riveted together, like in the Tanko armors, but corrosion makes hard to see the various plates.

      To protect the neck, the Shikoro was more than enough, although there were some other armor pieces like the Guruwa, which fully enclosed the neck, the Kikko collar, and also a curtain-like type of mail aventail called Shitajikoro, as I have mentioned here in this article.
      With the Shitajikoro, you would need to raise two shikoro before being able to see the neck.
      That being said, if someone is able to overcome someone else in grappling, the back of the neck covered by the Shikoro is one of the latest gap to be exploited; a stab in the face would be much more common unfortunately.

      Delete
    4. These Korean armor seem to be made with large iron plate.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Korea-Silla-Iron.armor-01.jpg


      How authentic is this Asuka period neck armor?

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Asuka_Museum_Keik%C3%B4.jpg/1200px-Asuka_Museum_Keik%C3%B4.jpg

      This is the only picture I found on development between Kofun Period and Heian Period.

      http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/005uNy2ejw1fc7iruiw9gj315808egr2.jpg

      https://i3.read01.com/SIG=36ud4a2/30465948786548304a6e.jpg


      Is the Kabutowari used like European rondel dagger in fighting with armor? this can be a good article for you. Another Japanese armor defeating weapon other than mace.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabutowari

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    5. Regarding that Korean armor, it seems made from single iron sheets, but is heavily corroded as well, so the various hypothetical smaller plates are hidden beneath the rust.

      The specific name for that kind of gorget found in Kofun and Asakura period armor is Akabe yoroi (頸鎧) and this is the original (quite corroded ) armor that inspired that replica you linked:

      http://www.city.fujiidera.lg.jp/material/images/group/9/47956671.jpg


      I recognized those pictures, they are from one of Sasama's book; I will write more about the armors of these periods, and actually I have used some of those pictures in my upcoming Oyoroi article which is almost finished. Anyway, if you are interested in that specific period, here there are more illustrations and references on how these armors looked like:

      http://kokutenkyou.seesaa.net/category/14357666-2.html

      http://www.kfzimg.com/G05/M00/2E/DB/p4YBAFlscQ2AAIZYAAHZSNFFpIA286_b.jpg

      http://www.kfzimg.com/G05/M00/2E/DB/p4YBAFlscQ6AIFFWAAHf6XFizys790_b.jpg

      http://img.mp.itc.cn/upload/20170205/911de17f8f634bf8aadbfc435825ac06_th.jpg

      http://img.mp.itc.cn/upload/20170205/b1649b50535642c890893c7d74ff33d0_th.jpg

      https://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/30/66/8d7da3b7acb32e699b415660c79a8aa6.jpg

      http://pds17.egloos.com/pds/201001/30/57/f0006957_4b6378f860fd0.jpg

      My educated guess on the Kabutowari is that they were used as daggers rather than can opener as the name suggest, at least in a fighting situation; it's much easier to stab someone rather than crack open his helmet with such a weapon. However, it's a very odd design due to its curvature; I will write something about it, but the rondel dagger equivalent is actually the Yoroi doshi (at least some types), or some types of Tanto like the Osoraku ones.




      Delete
    6. Yes, I have seen that gorget in that armor, but I found it in a website saying it is found in Korea.

      None of the picture show the lamellar manica and handguard on sword. Maybe that feature is rare and not considered as standard.

      What if the Kabutowari is actually used with the curvature down, in that way it would
      be like using a Turkish/Persian/Indian armor piercing dagger like the Pesh Kabz or this 11th-12th century Seljuk dagger.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/97/cf/7697cfc9ae11d0adfbe94c2f5f357df7.jpg

      The curved handle make it more comfortable to thrust. It make the point of the blade in line with your forearm.


      Thank you for sharing those picture, are those from Sasama's book? Where can I buy that?


      What is the logic in the change of lamellar lacing in the Heian Period?

      Isn't this armor have less lacing and bigger lamellar meaning faster production and easier repair

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Korea-Silla-Iron.armor-01.jpg

      than this

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Cuirass_do-maru_Met_14.100.109_n02.jpg

      Is the large number of plates and small size serve as better protection than the above armor.


      I also found what seem to be very early Menpo. When are they developed? Heian Period?

      http://www.arco-iris.com/George/images/menpo_tengu.jpg

      http://www.arco-iris.com/George/images/dean_fig_12.jpg

      http://www.arco-iris.com/George/images/menpo_very_old.jpg


      From what I read, the change in the Heian period is quite large. Metal coins is changed to rice for currency, roads become not safe, warrior monks appear for defense and the central government cannot hold the system anymore. It is almost like Dark Age. Is the Japanese not ready for the Chinese style of government and technology? Did they change like in the Edo Period from Stone or Bronze Age to Iron Age suddenly because of continental technology? What drive these change?


      I asked a lot about this period because the armor of the period between the Nara to the Heian and Kamakura Period is pretty much never shown in any website I visited.

      It is probably the most annoying period to research for me.
      There is few armor remnants becuase from what I read Buddhist practice discourage burial with material things while at the same time, scrolls and painting is not yet popular. Statue is also unhelpful since they all show Chinese Tang Dynasty style armor.

      With what I find in the last 2 years of researching Asian armor, I would not be surprised if they use full body armor for all their soldier in that period.


      Armor of pre-Kofun Japan would probably have little remains and would be hard to be reconstructed. In my opinion, there would be too much speculation for this period.

      The change in armor between 1300s to 1500s is also hard to find, but at least there are scrolls made in this period that we can found in Japanese websites and so on. They are often overlooked, not lost.


      I also found this gauntlet. It look similar to MET Museum one.

      https://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200902/19/61/f0075561_6461198.jpg


      I have read your article about Ninja, there are certainly other Japanese warrior like the Sohei and Onna Bugeisha. Would you cover the Emishi, Ainu or Okinawan army?

      When you put pictures in your article, how do you write the copyright if you cannot find the real owner of the picture or if it is owned in the first place?

      Sorry, to comment so much I think am taking so much place and lengthen this blog, can I just PM you. It's nice to talk with someone who knows Japanese armor, in most forum Japanese armor is almost always instantly regarded as bad except for Nanban armor.

      Delete
    7. That specific armor with the lamellar gorget was excavated from the Nagamochi Yama Kofun in Japan.

      The lamellar manica is quite new to me too, I haven't see it before (although I have not researched a lot in that time period); but as long as it is on Haniwa figurines, they were used in that period.

      For the Kabutowari, this might be the reason for the curved handle as you pointed out, nice idea!

      The book is called 日本の甲冑武具事典 but please keep in mind that the book is entirely in Japanese, although is full of useful illustrations. There are several versions and you can find them on Amazon ;)

      Well the early lamellar armors, the Keiko, weren't that different from the classic lamellar armors found elsewhere. However, they were improved in the Heian period: the normal lamellar armor is made with lamellae all sewn together which are very flexible. The earliest types of lacings were also very exposed.
      Later on, the Japanese started to adopt the kozane ita; the lamellae were all sewn to form a plate and then lacquered hardened to obtain a very stiff material. This allow the boards made of lamellae to be stronger against impact, while retaing part of the flexibility of the lamellar structure: I have explained this in my Oyoroi article but it is not finished yet.


      As for those Mempos, they came from the book of Bashford Dean which is very outdated now as far as information are concerned: all of his dating is wrong and those armor came from the Edo period.
      The early depiction of Mempo I have found is from a picture of the 14th century, I believe. It is a bit of "egg vs chicken: which came before?" scenario: we don't know if Hanbo or Mempo came first but my educated guess is that the Hanbo was the first one. In any case, Mempo didn't became common until the 16th century, and it is still debated if they were used or not.

      Yes, the Heian period saw the change of power from a centralize empire to a feudal system. It happened because the Emperor troops were struggling against the Emishi in the north, so he started to rely on professional warriors made by the nobility and their private army. In this way, the military power shifted from a conscripted centralized army to a feudal system over two centuries, and so the Emperor lost his authority.
      But it's very complicate to see why all of this changes happened and this is only one limited fraction of the whole picture.

      I will try my best to cover those periods in the future, although it's true: the knowledge available about it it's very limited.

      I would love to write something about those warriors you listed in the future!

      Well for copyright is a bit complicated: most of the pictures I used are listed as public domain. If I cannot share them, I usually ask, and put a direct link to the original source. Beside, if someone is not happy with me using their pictures they might write a comment and I am willing to remove said picture immediately.
      Also, everything I use it's used for educative purpose only since I haven't monetized this blog.

      Don't worry about the comments!! You are leaving useful sources for everyone. But if you feel more comfortable in a PM discussion I have no problem about it: you can email me at gunsen.military.history@gmail.com

      Delete
    8. Thanks for clearing the age of those Menpos. Pictures of Heian Period armor is still hard to find. I actually once read in a website that the Kamakura Period is the start of large depiction of war in Japanese scrolls.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Gosannen_kassen_ekotoba_-_Scroll_2_part_2.jpg

      Depiction of Hanbo in Gosannen Kassen Ekotoba in the early 14th century (the figure on the left).


      The Nanbokucho Period seems to be the main period of transformation for Japanese armor.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/1d/61/801d61d3aab9e5a0048ff93259997edd.jpg

      https://www.sekainorekisi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/c243949362b9426ef35cc35575970833.jpg


      I found these 2 picture of Ashigaru in the Nanbokucho Period(maybe they are not yet called that), is the foot soldier have more complete armor in this period than later ones (excluding Kofun Period) because I never see picture of Ashigarus wearing thigh armor other than in this period.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Mounted_Warrior_%28Kyoto_National_Museum%29.jpg

      It seems that the Yoroi Hakama is popular in the Nanbokucho Period, I don't know why it is almost completely replaced with the Haidate in later period.


      https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22471

      https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/DT305399.jpg

      It is also interesting that starting from the Nanbokucho Period, I found that lamellar plates seems to be laced and then coated with lacquer completely forming what looks like a solid plate. I think 14th century Sode example is made like that, but is there a chance that the Sode is actually laminar and the plates are just made to resemble lamellar? Therefore starting the use of laminar armor in the 14th century?

      https://daimyou-armor.com/daimyou-armor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IMG_6535.jpg



      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baekgang

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dky%C5%AB_War

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bubaigawara

      Is the number for this battles right? Because if it is, then Japan might actually always have ability to field large amount of men like China.

      I have always heard that the rate of militarization of Japan is high, but I always that it start in the Sengoku Period. There is this saying that the samurai only know ritual combat before the Mongol came, however I believe that Japan always have mass warfare at any time in their history.


      Other than those warrior I listed, it would also be interesting to write about the Kebiishi police considering they have their own weapons and techniques.


      I plan to make a Youtube Channel about arms and armor of various cultures. I will plan to monetize it, so choosing the pictures would be important. The problem is that there are pictures that disappear after awhile and cannot be traced again in the Internet, the same about broken websites.

      Delete
    9. Sorry If I'm writing this answer after few weeks, but blogger had removed your comment and I was able to realize it only now! Anyway, here is my answer:

      Well yes, the Nanbokucho period is indeed a period of armor development that is often overlooked and understimated, as I have written in my Kanabo article.

      The Ashigaru didn't wear standard armor set up until very late in the 16th century, when they were issued with munition grade armor.
      The majority of these early foot soldiers didn't have a lot of armor at first, but battle after battle they were able to loot armor sets.
      In those pictures you can actually see that those foot soldiers are with a mounted warrior; in fact it is quite possible that they were the respective low ranking Samurai retainers, which is why you see more armor.
      This was also true for the Sengoku period.


      The Haidate are an improvement and a development of the Yoroi hakama so it's quite natural that they were replaced to some extent. Beside, the two pieces are quite similar in my opinion

      Actually, the lacquering forming a solid plate was done since the 10-11th century; this is the improvement I was mentioning when talking about hardening by lacquering.
      I have never heard of Sode being laminar up until the mid 15th century; however, the first cuirass made with solid plates are mentioned in the Taiheiki, a book of the 14th century: here there is a mention of two types of armor, called Kanadou (金胴) or Karadou (空胴). They mean "iron cuirass" or "empty cuirass", two names that suggest the all metal structure without any type of laces (empty). These are supposed to be the precursor of the Okegawa Dou.
      So laminar armor in feudal Japan appeared in the 14th century, which means that it is quite possible that some Sode were made of plate, like tosei sode.


      As far as the number of troops are concerned there are few things to keep in mind; Japanese sources are often exaggerated, however, when the power in question had a centralized control, like the shogunate or the Emperor, they were able to field several hundreds of troops.
      I'm quite skeptical about the numbers in the Kamakura period because there isn't a proper source.
      However, the ritual 1 v 1 duels are myths that came directly from the gunkimoko epic tales. The Samurai of the Heian, Kamakura and Muromachi period fought in groups against other groups, and not 1 v 1.

      I'm not very confident with you tube policy; all I can say is that unless you use explicit copyrighted materials like pictures from movies or alamy's pictures etc. you won't get demonetized. I'm glad that you want to start a channel! Feel free to use the information and the pictures you find here if you want, just leave a direct link to my blog/article!

      Delete
    10. The earliest Haidate I have ever seen is from the late 13th century Heiji Monogatari Sanjo scroll, it also show the earliest showing of two Kote being worn.


      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Heiji_Monogatari_Emaki_-_Sanjo_scroll_part_5_-_v2.jpg


      Yoroi Hakama start to appear in the Nanbokucho Period and seems to be only depicted in that period.

      The picture of Ashikaga Takauji show Yoroi Hakama.

      I think Yoroi Hakama cannot be the predecessor of the Haidate because all of its depiction appear later than the Haidate.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Mounted_Warrior_%28Kyoto_National_Museum%29.jpg

      Interestingly, the picture also show mail linked with hinged plates in the Kote which probably means that plated mail are used in Japan earlier than in Middle East.

      The Yoroi Hakama is more stable to wear as it is attached closer to the skin than the Haidate unless the Haidate is the tubular one, making it closer in feeling to the European cuisse than the 16th century Haidate, in my opinion.


      I also just realize this.

      The Period from 900-1200 is also pretty much a gap in my knowledge.

      This is the only Heian period picture showing armor. Ban Dainagon Ekotoba.

      http://23.pro.tok2.com/~freehand2/rekishi/img2/dainagon.jpg


      Did Japanese armor stagnate between the 900s (when their armor have change completely to Oyoroi and Do maru) to 1300s when armor start to change again.

      Why did Kote almost always shown only on one hand during the Kamakura period? Why did samurai start to wear 2 Kote in the Nanbokucho period?

      Why did Haidate not become standard sooner?

      Did that have to do with change in wars and how troops are recruited? How did armor produced before the Shogunate took over but after conscription disappear?

      Delete
    11. I just see why the Kogake appear later.

      In the Heike Monogatari Sanjo picture, the Japanese stirrup protect the foot as most Samurai are horse archer in this period, the Kogake didn't appear yet.

      What is the motivation for the knee guard in later Suneate?

      It is quite interesting to see when and why they gradually add all these parts.

      Also with the myth of Samurai duel is the often stated Japanese sword break when hitting Mongol leather armor, is this true?

      Delete
    12. You are right about the haidate; the earliest one I have seen depicted are on the haniwa warriors, but it's very likely that the hodo haidate (the tubular ones) cohexisted with the yoroi hakama. Honestly I don't know why one style prevailed over the other, but I have to say that actually, the final version of the haidate found in modern armor should behave like the tubular ones: they were usually made with a lamellar structure so they were flexible, and they had a cloth section called fungomi on the back that allow the armor to stay in place around the leg. Most of the time, Edo period haidate don't have this feature. This is how they are supposed to behave especially on horseback:

      https://pin.it/lksqhv6hvkcepr

      https://pin.it/55sehglop57tjt

      Also, the earliest depiction of mail ( or at least, what it looks like mail) being used to connect plates as far as I am aware is found inside the Obusuma saburo emaki (男衾三郎絵巻), dated late 13th century, but there is also a kusari shikoro in the Heiji Monogatari Emaki:

      https://pin.it/gbxwfpubuwj3pl

      We cannot say if the armors in between 900-1200 stagnate or something similar since we have very little evidences of what was used as you know; there were small changes here and there especially during the 900s-1000s when you have the full translation from the Uchikake keiko to the Oyoroi. In the 1100-1200 the Oyoroi was modified a little to be less restrictive on foot and some parts were added but it's very technical to discuss these points.

      As for the Kote, many warriors wore two but one of them was covered by the sleeve of the hitatare worn under the armor. Some low rank samurai worn only one kote to use better the bow, but again I think that most Samurai used both arms protections.
      Haidate didn't become standard until the kusazuri of the Oyoroi became smaller and fighting on foot became common; before that, the kusazuri were long enough to cover the legs on the sides especially on horseback (just like what you said on kogake :) )

      The additional knee guard, called Otateage, appeared for the same reason: short kusazuri and more fighting on foot.

      I find it too very interesting to see all the small and progressive development over time! As for the Japanese blade breaking against Mongolian armor, it's a myth: I have never seen a period document saying that, and honestly I don't see how those swords were supposed to break against leather armor when they have been used for ages against Japanese armors without any significant failure rate.

      Delete
  8. I think the talking about the detail in armor is good for differentiation.



    I found this Kamakura period Kote with mail on it, it is from a catalog of Samurai armor collection.

    https://i.redditmedia.com/Z8iESM6eFbcIgmiQz1rD8f2EKAKAKDhpGjJLM7pttGE.jpg?w=1024&s=01b33edbd302126dc9b072e945e8e6da



    This is one depiction of Kamakura Period Haidate.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heiji_Monogatari_Emaki_-_Rokuhara_scroll_part_4.jpg

    Why are they split in the bottom?



    Also about Kofun armor, I found out that they actually have neck armor as well.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/FunazukaKofunHaniwaSoldier.jpg



    Which make me want to know, if there are direct links between this and the neck guards of the Oyoroi or some Tosei gusoku.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armor_(Yoroi)_MET_DT305417.jpg


    or the Kofun manica to the Kote.



    Also after thinking more, I have some more idea for improving your sketch.

    Why keep the Sode if the Kote already protect the upper arm? This cuirass below have an integrated shoulder guard already.

    https://i.pinimg.com/564x/55/e9/b8/55e9b811c0cb11050f8748956ee69e24.jpg


    Why not use a plate or laminar Wakibiki, should work better than just mail.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/1c/27/541c2772261b84e62d7d70cbd5d6f532.jpg



    Or use this (I don't know what it is called, it look like an additional plate attached to the cuirass)

    https://cdn.4travel.jp/img/tcs/t/pict/src/25/57/83/src_25578360.jpg?1338731955



    By the way if the Samurai start fighting on foot, why did the large Sendan no Ita and Kyuubi no Ita abandoned and then Samurai only use mail to protect the front shoulder joint?

    Wouldn't fighting on foot allow more precise technique for attacking the joints like half swording, so why not protect the obvious vulnerable point?


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I didn't realize there are actually quite detailed book about Japanese armor and tactics.

      https://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Armour-Japanese-Cuirass-Military/dp/1472807960

      Have you read it?

      It have details about the obscure period between the Kofun to the Heian Period.


      There is also this book. I often find screenshots of it in several website.

      http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s428/yukitama1999/4ECB8005528D6CD5_zpse4a1110d.jpg



      Delete
    2. Where did you find picture of amor of Akechi Hidemitsu with plate in the mid section?



      Did you visit this website and the forum for information?

      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html


      I found the Kote that you said have an integrated armpit armor in that forum.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/66/49/166649572b25007c067773ff955a5053.jpg

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3a/b5/17/3ab517bf0ce632b63ced1448827c5dc6.jpg

      Which you use in this Quora answer (nice one filled with a lot of information that really counter the argument of weak points).

      https://www.quora.com/Why-did-samurai-armor-have-weak-points-on-underarms-and-forearms-striking-there-would-be-easy-if-the-warrior-was-swinging-a-sword



      I found additional pieces if you want the armor even heavier, in case you haven't seen these pieces.

      I never see Jinbaori reinforced with armor.

      http://uenokosyu.com/swfu/d/s_120705-200.png



      Also the gauntlet in the Metmuseum is not a lone example. This is a different full plate gauntlet in a Kote, not alone like in the Metmuseum one.

      https://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200902/19/61/f0075561_6461198.jpg



      I just notice that a lot of Japanese armor post Kofun Period have a lot of cord as means of connecting the armor whereas previously in the Kofun Period, they use a lot of metal clamps for holding armor and the laces are less visible.

      http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/fujiko2381/imgs/0/f/0f3114f3.jpg



      I heard that after the Battle of Baekgang that the Japanese lost their source of iron. Your article really convince me that the Japanese still have a good amount of metal.

      It just seems odd that they would use something that could have a chance to get cut or rot.


      Thank you for making this blog. It is really interesting to see the Japanese develop a lot of interesting design for armor. The unfortunate thing is that all pieces that we have talked about are never combined in one set of suit, it is always this nice gauntlet here or this cool helmet there.

      I think after a lot of research, it is not that standard (I really mean standard as in average ones) European armor are completely outside context problem for Asian armor, it's just that they combine their armor parts together into a complete package, that is why European armor just look so superior to others.

      Delete
    3. I think it is good too and in fact I'm enjoying discussing with you all of these details here.
      Those kote are quite famous; they were attributed to Minamoto Yoshitsune, but they were dated early 14th century. I think that they are the oldest well preserved kote armor.

      The haidate found in the Heiji monogatari emaki are (presumably) hodo haidate, so they are splitted in three around the knee area. My educated guess is that the splitted sections are able to encase the knee without restricting its movement range. But this is a theory of mine, I wasn't able to find any proper explanation.

      About the kofun neck armor, it might be a Korean influence; usually you see a plate gorget and the shikoro of the kabuto, this "high collar" is quite new to me.
      However I don't see any direct correlation with the shogi no ita (the parts of the Yoroi you have linked); their fuction was to stop any sudden movements of the Osode toward the neck as well as stopping cuts. It was retained in some Tosei gusoku for aesthetic purpose.

      To my sketches;
      the small shoulder protection is called kobire or kohire and unlike a tosei sode, it only covers a very limited area of the arm. With a sode, you are able to cover the shoulder as well as the biceps with articulated plates.
      A lot of kote didn't have extensive armor on the biceps, it was mainly composed by mail and small plates, and this is why I have integrated the sode in the sketches.

      Also, I have mentioned wakibiki in the article; you can use them to cover the armpit, and you can also use mail voiders in the kote and a manchira too.
      The main problem with plate armpit is that they don't fit under the armor, they are worn outside, and they don't cover the armpit itself if the arms are raised: this is why you want mail to cover this specific area, because it is flexible and could always cover it. You can also stack them all together although it might be a little too much; usually a mail voider under a manchira is already a very strong combination.
      (That plate is a wakibiki too).

      The sedan and kyubi no ita were dropped in favour of smaller gyouyou plates, because they were quite big and cumbersome.
      In the optimal heavy configurarion, you have two smaller plates acting as besagews as well as a manchira and underneath the mail voiders. It is already a lot of armor if you think about it.

      Delete
    4. About Trevor Absolon book, I have read it and I have mixed feelings about it.
      On one hand it has some details about the pre samurai period, but it is only related to cuirass (as the whole book deal only with cuirass) and I will probably use 100% of the info on my future articles.
      On the other hand, it is quite a mess when it discusses 14th, 15th and 16th century armor. He states objectively wrong facts (like steel being heavier than iron), wrong statements about iron and steel in Japan, it has a very low estimate of Japanese armorer's capabilities and a very weird theory which basically says that tosei gusoku were created thanks (and solely!) to European armors, while in reality the influence was quite minimal. I was really disappointed with that part of the book honestly.
      Sasama's works are way much better.
      About the other book, I don't know the title unfortunately!

      The armor of Akechi Hidemitsu is this one:
      https://www.tnm.jp/modules/r_collection/index.php?controller=dtl&colid=F16005&t=type&id=33
      The sketches in the article were taken directly by one of Dr. Sasama's book.

      Also, sengoku daimyo was my starting point when I decided to get more into this stuff! It's still a good place and the author was really a fantastic person.

      I'm glad you apprecciated my Quora's answer! I'm quite proud of that one.

      Yes there are some armored jinbaori, although extremely rare and decorative. There is also one made entirely of mail; however, you won't wear those items on the battlefield, jinbaori were for commanders and didn't need to add weight especially when you already have a full tosei gusoku set on.

      About the iron; although my article focused on 14th,15th and 16th century, I've always refuted the theory that iron in Japan was extremely scarce. They had an industry going on for ages, and even when the country was closed to foreigners in the 1600s, domestic iron production didn't decrease. In any case, after the battle of Baekgang, relationships with Tang China were already restored few years after the war, and trading was still going on.
      So why they didn't use hinges anymore? Because they switched from rigid laminar armor to flexible lamellar, which didn't need hinges to be opened or closed; hinges in a lamellar armor are quite useless.

      I'm glad you liked this blog! I agree with you, I have the same feeling about Japanese armor having some very good designed pieces, but they are not concentrated in one single set. This was the main reason why I made this post, try to put together all of these piece in one single set.

      Delete
    5. I found what book the picture came from.

      https://www.ebay.ie/itm/FREE-SHIPPING-Samurai-Sword-Weapon-Armor-Seppuku-Battle-truth-Book-Translation-/362364933003



      Delete
    6. About covering the armpit, it is very common from my experience that most people would say that covering the armpit is impossible without mail.

      Actually you don't need mail to cover the armpit or any other joints.

      Maybe it's because most people see European armor as the ultimate pre-modern armor ever and they rarely cover the armpit with anything other than mail.

      There are only a few examples of European plate with non-mail armpit joint. Most of it are from the late 15th-early 16th century, so the peak of plate armor development and common use, it is unlikely that plate armor before or after are as completely developed as those.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/a1/b7/4aa1b7b74bba4e78a54c170f5fcb54e4.jpg

      http://www.tforum.info/forum/uploads//post-5230-1191217150.jpg



      This is the strangely the area where Asian armor actually triumph almost completely compared to European armor (pre-plate armor, there are only either some rare manica with armpit plate or scale armor with sleeve, both are worn only for short period in Greco-Roman times).

      The Chinese and pre-Islam Central Asia, while using mail, rarely use it as a stand alone armor. That along with the need of complete joint movement for archery is maybe the factor for them to develop armor that cover all gaps without mail.


      Chinese:

      Late Tang Dynasty (tubular lamellar arm defense)

      https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Illustrated_manuscript_Prajnapamita_Hrdaya_sutra_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg


      Five Dynasties Ten Kingdom Period (tubular laminar arm joint in the 10th century)

      http://rs.bift.edu.cn/static/resource/2014/5B5A22BE64/42A5A0F891/7C583DAB17/6788B6BDAE7CE6D.jpg


      Song Dynasty (tubular beast head cover the arm joint):

      http://digldata.zjlib.cn/smgzxtx/201312821579.jpg



      Central Asia:

      Sogdian picture of Shiva (lamellar manica worn below a short laminar sleeve):

      https://videshisutra.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/00006100.jpg


      Sogdian king of demons (compare the beast head to the Chinese ones, also cover the armpit)

      https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/f67d3a3b298c6dbef213c793b7ee0b7f/5C1ED650/t51.2885-15/e35/20686954_1924761701131306_8049411085192658944_n.jpg


      There are also Mongol armor examples.



      It is actually my own project (that I will put on Youtube) to rank non European-articulated-plate-armor armor. I find it almost impossible to rank them as they all have very impressive attributes, you could always learn new things in armor as most plate armor don't have these feature and even then complete knowledge of European plate armor is in my opinion still shallow.

      You may find it surprising that I actually have more difficulties finding unique Japanese stuff than unique Chinese stuff. So much of it stays in Japan.



      The Japanese samurai armor, in my opinion, develop as a completely different family of development unaffected by Central Asian (affect Chinese and Persian armor) or Mongol (affect Turkish, Russian, Persian and Indian) ones, their style is closer to European armor.

      For the skill they show, I'm quite surprised that the Japanese armorer didn't make their best features (like Wakibiki or other armpit armor) standard in all Japanese armor like in European garnitures, maybe it's because they are developed at the time of firearms, so it's useless to cover all gap completely and add excessive weight in one suit.



      I mean gauntlet like this is rare find for Japanese ones (please add it to the Metmuseum sketch one, this means there are maybe more example of this type of gauntlet).

      https://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200902/19/61/f0075561_6461198.jpg



      Or this:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/1a/02/0e1a024e3ffd581fafe803f0a8262c04.jpg


      and this:

      https://blog-001.west.edge.storage-yahoo.jp/res/blog-e3-a1/shu_shuppan/folder/523205/59/15750259/img_1?1399512896



      The similarity of European armor and Japanese armor:

      1. Besagews.

      2. Arming jacket.

      3. 3 piece arm defense (vambrace and gauntlet-elbow plate-upper canon).

      4. Menpo Kabuto - Bevor Sallet.

      5. Separate thigh armor.

      Delete
    7. Sorry, the picture I want to know is actually the Leeds one (the website didn't show the plate).


      About the Trevor Absolon book, well, it seems that people lately have a lot of immediate pre-conceived notions of inferiority, even for the one who supposedly research it for decades.


      Maybe it is also video like this that gives an image that Japanese armor are easy to damage.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9OvaL2W6BA




      I have read about a research by Leeds Armory on Japanese armors, they were heat treated just like swords, so that the inner part is softer, while the outer one are harder.

      It is from 2008 though.



      The cords are carried over to the age of Tosei Gusoku where most armor can be made of plates. For example, fastening in plate cuirass on the right of the body is made of cords.

      http://www.kinokuniya.tv/japanese_armor/A-3/images/017.jpg



      By the way, Have you make an article about Naginata?

      It is the most common polearm I see pre-Nanbokucho Period. I only found Kumade being carried by foot soldier in the Mongol scroll. I think it deserves an article by you.

      I also have questions about how Samurai fight each other.

      I know cutting through armor is inefficient for harming the enemy, so how did they use the Naginata? Slice the horse's leg?

      How about with infantry? Slice the thigh? Or use it for thrusting? Unlike the Tachi, most depiction depict it with its curvature curing almost backward. I think it can still be used reversed, but by swinging it like a pick axe.

      However in the Gosannen Kassen Ekotoba, there is a Samurai stabbing his opponent with a Naginata point like with a normal spear.


      Its the same with the Tachi. Considering that lamellar should be closer to brigandine than mail. It means that they have to stab the weak points.



      I have read about several versus match in forums. While the consensus is that plate armored knights beat later standard armor samurai, the match between later samurai or earlier samurai with mail armored knights is not so clear. The shield is often said as sure ways for the knight to win. That I can understand.

      But mail is also said to be something that the Katana cannot deal with. it is frankly illogical. European sword during the age of mail are thin and wide with spatulate point, therefore they should have hard time thrusting through mail, so they must be used to cut the mail to inflict blunt trauma.

      Tachi and Katana are 2 handed cutting weapon with thicker blades, so more blunt trauma, so it should be considered more able to deal with mail than European sword. It can also be reversed to give a strong thrust as often done Sengoku bujutsu demonstration, in this way its point should be sharper than spatulate point.

      Delete
    8. Thank you for the book reference!
      I see your points about armpit defense, and while I agree with you I think that a little bit of context should be clarified;

      The frontal armpit, which is the area you were addressing, could be covered by "overextended pauldrons" which are the ones that you typically find in Chinese armor, or by some sort of lamellar sleeves too.
      The armpit itself, which is the area under the shoulder is quite complicated to cover with a rigid material; you could use lamellar sleeve or articulated lames but you would make the armor less comfortable in my opinion, and partially restrict arm's mobility.

      This is why some European armors are fully enclosed with the joints covered by articulated lames when it comes to tournament armors (like the one of Henry VIII), but they have joints covered with mail when it comes to field armors made for war.
      You could cover the frontal armpit with besagews or overextended pauldrons and then use mail to cover the armpit itself, to allow more comfort.

      One thing about armor design that is often overlooked is the fact that you want to make armor wearable for long period of time, and this why you see these trade off; the armpit itself is a zone quite hard to hit in a fight, so you reduce the protection in that area in order to have more mobility with the arms and less pain/fatigue in the long run.

      As for the late Japanese armor, they went for mail to protect the armpit itself with the voiders of the kote, and then gyouyou + manchira to cover the frontal one. You could also have wakibiki as well.
      You could see in my sketches that the manchira under a breastplate cover that area, and also in the very first ukiyoe, in the warrior with the blue armor. Sometimes even two pair of gyouyou were used, like in the case of Soma Yoshitani's armor, or a Nanban manchira which could cover the frontal armpit too.
      You also have to consider that the sode could be tilted forward a little bit to cover the frontal armpit, in order to add even more protection in a fight (you can see it in the warrior on the right in the ukiyoe at the beginning of the article):
      https://pin.it/lglgsvgfhrfuxu

      They also knew and sometimes used articulated laced lames instead of mail, you could see it in one of the pictures above of the kote fully enclosed.
      Here there is another example, with only the elbow covered with laced lames instead of mail:
      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/b1/c4/6bb1c41793b636e9455bffcec28a87fd.jpg

      Let me know when your project will be out! You seems to be very knowledgeable in the field of Asian armor and I'm interested in it ;)

      Japanese armor is quite indipendent from the other types of Asian armors, this is true, and as far as I know they were also the only one to develop a solid clam shell type of cuirass like the ones used in Europe.
      Also keep in mind that most of these additional & rare features you could find in this article weren't that rare in the 16th century. The majority of Samurai armor you could see now is from the Edo period, and they are made to be object of arts like a paint or a vase. So they didn't bother too much with all the additional or heaviest pieces.
      This is why you never see a full suit with mittens gauntlet, manchira, wakibiki and kogake etc. It is quite possible that those armors had those pieces, but where discarded later on since they were meant to stay still onto a wooden standing.
      Anyway I will add those gauntlets as soon as I can ;)

      Delete
    9. Here is a picture of Leed's armor without the kusazuri, so you could see it:
      https://pin.it/zrw4g5bmwmp5ol

      It is a feature that some other armors have; this one is from the 16th century (it's a little bit blurry but you coul still see it): https://pin.it/bj3u2z5a2jco4u
      More frequently the plate is under the laces of the kusazuri.

      About Absolon's book, I have that feeling too. Those videos don't help at all.
      I also have more information on the metallurgy of Japanese armors of the 16th century, and I would make an article in my iron&steel series sooner or later.

      About the cords to close the armor; tosei dou that closes at the side have two cords, one at the waist and a smaller one a the side. They works together to close the armor. The smaller cords should be located in an area hard to acces in a fight, and if some one is still able to cut it, there is also the cord at the waist that still close the armor. However I'm quite confident that such episodes didn't happened frequently, and even if the cord is damaged, you could still relace it and/or repair it quite easily.
      My confidence came from the fact that some armors have this closing mechanism:

      http://rs831.pbsrc.com/albums/zz238/estcrh/Antique%201600s%20%20Samurai%20Hosokawa%20clan%20suit%20of%20armor/Nanban%20gusoku/nanbanuukis.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

      About the Naginata, I will write an article in the future. It was the most common infantry weapon for the majority of the late Heian and Kamakura period. Against horsmen, you could cut the horses's legs as well as unseat the man with the aid of the curved blade, and you can also aim at the limbs too.
      Against infantry, you use it like an halberd or a bill/bardiche; the Naginata of the 12th-14th century were quite big and heavy, especially the Onaginata, and with the aid of a two handed strikes you could hit quite hard through limbs armor.
      Most of the foot soldiers didn't have extensive armor on the limbs, and those whom used a shields could still be hit by the curved blades. This is why was so popular.
      Against heavily armored 14th century samurai, it's a bit complicated because this was a period of transition; you could still use the point to damage the gaps of the armor, and you could try to cut in the unarmored zone: the curvature of the blade could be useful to hit under the kusazuri, the legs or in the face. It can also be useful to hook the enemy and make him losing the balance.
      (The same is mostly true for the Tachi; within this period you have more swords with long and slender Okissaki tip which are much better at piercing).
      However it wasn't the best weapon in this context: this is why you started to see axes, kanabos, spears and warpicks being used in this period, when armors developed more. The two things are correlated.
      Also, this is a good advice; although art and depictions are important and could give you various insights, they shouldn't be taken as 100% correct: there is a lot of room for artistic rapresentations, iconography rules and most of the time the artists never faced a battle. Keep it in mind when doing researches ;)

      Well, I usually avoid those kind of toxic debates, for obvious reasons. However, to answer your question, a two handed katana strike, given the mass of the blade and where the point of balance is located, would probably break bones under the mail hauberk, and it will surely hit harder than your average one handed arming sword.
      And some types of katana have (arguably) a thin point capable of getting through mail:
      https://pin.it/bybuareirvpfsx
      https://pin.it/4pnuggvp55gzyg

      Delete
    10. Thank you for your opinion.

      About the armpit armor making armor uncomfortable to wear for a long time. Yes, I have sometimes think about how various armor would be comfortable the longest.

      I think it is strange if it is really the reason because Asian armors that have the armpit completely closed without using mail are all used by Chinese regimes that are located in deserts, Central Asian, Mongol fighting in the Middle East or Mughal in India.

      All of those place are places where it should be uncomfortable to wear heavy armor.

      All of those except the Central Asian ones are also military that employ mass armies, so those armors are not just for kings or nobles. They are also militaries that travel through long distances across rugged desolate terrains.

      I have seen a Chinese mural and manuscript with the soldiers covered completely except the foot, hand and face with what look like laminar jumpsuit, there are no armpit or groin gap. The mural in the Guiyi Circuit, a late Tang Dynasty army pocket surviving until the Song Dynasty, located in the Tarim Basin.

      http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/showpic.html#blogid=769fb5f30102vzne&url=http://album.sina.com.cn/pic/002aGAhRgy6WydWUJF264

      https://img.91ddcc.com/14463602502233.jpg


      By the way, I ask this just because it seems strange that the Japanese didn't use such design when they are sophisticated enough to do so, it would be good for answering debates.


      Most of the thing I write here is the one that I would put in my Youtube channel. Free to criticize it.


      About the Japanese developing clam shell type cuirass.
      From my knowledge, there are actually other Asian clam shell cuirass developed originally without European influence, but t is very few and almost unknown.

      However it doesn't mean that the Japanese are not good, they still develop the largest amount of variation of cuirass design in the world , in my opinion

      This Indian example are probably influenced by European design.

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/7f/1b/027f1b793f917656ed861ab8d5ff2ee0.jpg



      I realize you have once answered a question on Quora asking if the Chinese develop plate armor or not. You answered with the Ming examples.

      This would be one of the things I would try to explain in Youtube.
      I also once thought that the Ming example is the only one. Later on I found that there are actually examples of full torso plate cuirass in every Dynasty from the Northern Southern Period to the Ming Dynasty.



      Tang Dynasty (the cuirass extend farther down than the usual Tang breastplate)

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ce/19/d9/ce19d9447a98d29569a6d0899ca4ad17.jpg

      The normally used Tang cuirass is just half length, so that, in my opinion, the user can bend forward.

      http://digldata.zjlib.cn/smgzxtx/201312817049.jpg



      Five Dynasties Ten Kingdom (the most convincing picture I have seen of clam shell plate cuirass in China)

      http://img.mp.itc.cn/upload/20170225/0ae1d432eea84456bcb5d5a91d4832d9.jpeg



      Song Dynasty

      (look at the man farthest right, he is wearing a Churburg cuirass)

      http://upload.8mhh.com/2014/0104/thumb_1000__1388821272367.jpg


      http://img.redocn.com/sheying/20170209/songdaizhujianshidiao_7847861.jpg



      You are right, that it is best to avoid such toxic debates as it often enter into such generic arguments that you have start to debunk, thankfully.

      I think it is also what drives me to search informations about Asian armors, as I often hear comments like "the Chinese never wear heavy armor" "Asian never have heavy infantry comparable to Roman legion" and so on.

      Those are now can be thoroughly debunked, both for mainland Asia and Japan.






      Delete
    11. As you might have noted, I am not extremely familiar with all the various types of Asian armors.
      Lamellar sleeves might not be so uncomfortable at the end, even though I won't be surprised to see those soldiers dropping some pieces of armors in a long march.

      About the two murals, I'm quite skeptical that those warriors worn laminar armors on the legs, mainly because they aren't close fitting and having those large plates hanging around your lower limbs would be heavy and very awkward to walk with. They look similar to the other armors components indeed, so might those armors be some form of textile garments?

      The Japanese switched from overextended pauldrons to Sode and additional plates over the ages, and they were probably satisfied on how the two pieces interacted with each other to protect the armpit, I believe. I'm pretty sure that if they wanted to, they would have come back to the old design, as they did with plates;

      https://pin.it/rq6c3ix7qyjvef
      https://pin.it/ffzbezt5p2cznm (the two warriors in the first section)

      Btw, I think that is good that you would have that You Tube channel! There is a lot of interest towards these types of armors but nobody actually have detailed videos on them!

      I've also made a very strong statement about the clamshell cuirass; some type of Indian Char Aina is at the end of the day a solid cuirass. About the Ming however, their "plate armor" wasn't as rigid as one piece or riveted plates armors, as far as my understanding goes.

      I'm also not confident enough to say wether or not the armors you linked are actually one piece/laminated solid cuirass; I'm aware that the Tang used two separated plates in the Cord&Plaque configuration, but that's a mirror cuirass rather than a clam shell cuirass.
      If you manage to find other evidences of larger plates it would be better; art is good but you aren't able to tell precisely what kind of structure made these armors, it might be a mirror configuration, plate or brigandine/lamellar covered by clothes.
      Some archeological evidences would be nice to back up your thesis ;)

      However it is good that there is some people like you who is spending some time in researching in that field!

      Delete
  9. I have seen your new article about the transition from lamellar to plate. I will take my time reading it, I'm sure it will be interesting.

    About the laminar armor, I have seen a lot of it and in a lot of form.
    It is the progress from lamellar jumpsuit already worn by Central Asian for centuries before the Chinese did. (The depiction really show lamellar with the edges of the plate), there are also Chinese depiction showing it together with lamellar jumpsuit meaning it is not a depiction of lamellar.



    http://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz/Pq1pFIkwAAjlPzPOsVvJGnWRiahrIfAicBgjRvXYItfYc9DKNfkCCRqlhKqVNbIbEDmzdrSftbx6jic64Q3IUesuQ/0?wx_fmt=jpeg

    look at the bottom middle figure.

    The armor in that picture is lamellar, but they are made in the same region and are found around the same place. However I think this one is Tang period.


    I know the Chinese wear long coat style armor, this should be cumbersome, yet they are worn for a long time.

    https://img.91ddcc.com/14441791871643.jpg

    Early European knight before they use the mail chauss lengthen their mail coat to a bit longer than the knee. Also tonlet armor is the preferred one for foot tournament which is quite odd if such cumbersome skirt is really unsuitable for foot combat.

    The Indian cuirass is linked to you is not Char Aina it is a cuirass just like European or Japanese ones.

    https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/DP219403.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/bb/33/c6bb33ba97bfe0902af18be350afb94a.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/8e/88/0e8e88ed09679f1d5d7373731da1461d.jpg


    I think I have derail the discussion too much by speaking about other Asian armor.



    I think the key for researching armor in art is. I know this is not the perfect.


    1. See if there is a rule to depict something, it will save a lot of time in researching art. (For there is no use in searching Japanese statue for realistic Japanese armor).


    2. Search similar result from before or after the period to search for evidence of progress and also if possible search similar things from other area and culture.


    3. Search similar results from other places and cultures if possible.


    4. Find an example where it shows in one picture several type of armor that can be confused for each other, so it shows that all of those are different. (Scale armor appear with mail in one depiction meaning scale and mail are used and not that scale is just a depiction of mail)


    5. In a rare chance, I found the picture of the armor being worn and armorer in the process in the process such armor in one book, so I know what the armor is.



    I like to know about the earliest Okegawa Do you said that appear before the Portuguese came, is there a photo of it?

    Also when is Japanese armor progress enough to be called Tosei Gusoku?

    If it just the lacing, wouldn't Hon Iyozane Do be Tosei Gusoku, when it is used beside Kozane prior to the Sengoku Period?


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    Replies
    1. Here I would speak about the previous armor component we discuss because I have been thinking about it.

      About plate and laminar Wakibiki,

      I think I can say that it is really able to cover the armpit. If for example we use the laminar Wakibiki,

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/1c/27/541c2772261b84e62d7d70cbd5d6f532.jpg

      the curved upper part rest on the underside base of the upper arm and is fastened with loop over the arm, when one lift the arm I think the curved part will stick to the underside of the arm, while the flexible laminar cover the armpit. When one lower the
      arm, the plates will fold close to each other.

      I think the protruding plate could probably serve as front armpit armor.
      I think it will be the same with the solid plate Wakibiki

      Just cover the visible underside of the arm with mail.

      The problem is that it would be hanging loosely outside the cuirass, so if the lower plate could be fastened to the cuirass it will be more comfortable to wear.



      If we equate it with European armor, it will be like this

      https://farm1.static.flickr.com/764/20317438643_fd081212b0_b.jpg

      The underside of the pauldron connect the front and the back of the pauldron, as long as the lower edge of the pauldron is long enough to cover when the soldier lift his arm, the armpit will be covered with solid plate probably without additional difficulty in moving the arm.


      About shoulder guard,

      what about the armor worn by the top 2 soldier, it seems that there are no plate and mail used for the upper arm in the earlier period?

      https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/as/original/DP244715.jpg

      Delete

    2. Let me know what do you think of! I think that you might find some of the information you were looking for.
      About that style of coat armor, I'm quite sure that it was from the Tang Dynasty since it arrived in Japan too; it is called men’ōchū, or ‘cotton coat’ but very little is known about that since there are extremely few references. Some scholars believe that they were made of metal or leather plates that were attached directly, by rivets or sewing, to the outer surface of the fabric coat and accompanying hood-like cloth cap. Alternatively, the men’ōchū may have been a form of brigandine, with the armor plating sandwiched between two cloth layers, or a type of gambeson.


      Also I am aware of these Indian cuirasses, they were inspired by European ones, although the early Char Ain could be considered clam shell cuirasses on their own.
      Btw, those are good rules to consider when looking into art!

      About the Okegawa do, nothing remains prior to the 1580s-90s unfortunately. However, there is an Okegawa do with the date 4 February 1535 signed on the inner plates.

      http://ec.shokokai.or.jp/cmsdb/cm06010/SintyakuAll/?ken=15█=57&uid=1558110001

      The armor is clearly a later one, probably of the late 16th century, but it is possible that the plates used were older (it was a common practice in the old world). In other words, it is very likely that riveting plates for the do was done at least since the 1535.
      There is also a Muromachi book used as a reference by Sasama which mention the okegawa do, but I wasn't able to find a date of publication. In any case, the assumption that the Okegawa do were made thanks to European influence is quite new and I was able to read it only in Absolon latest book; still, Ian Bottomley, Sasama, Kozan or any other authority in this field never made such hypothesis, which is truly unlikely in my opinion.

      For an armor to be considered a Tosei Gosoku there is a very loose set of rules; it should be a tachi do (standing do), having 5 or more sections instead of 4 that encircle the body, while the kusazuri (which is called gessan) has to be made of 5, 6 or 7 segments. It should also be made with plates and have some type of hinges , although these are not mandatory. And you can also use the overall shape; for example, this two do are made with kozane but the first one is a Tosei do, while the latter is a Classic Do maru:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8c/90/69/8c906984612a8b99533211d57254e318.jpg

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Periodo_nanbokucho%2C_armatura_di_tipo_domaru%2C_XIV_sec.JPG

      Early tosei do are late 15th century, late tosei do are mid 16th century.

      Delete
    3. I have to say that your intuition about the wakibiki does indeed makes sense! There are some solid pieces that have some system to fix the plate in place:
      These ones have two kohaze at the bottom and so they could be fastened to the cuirass (which should have a pair of kohaze in the zone under the arm, and I am aware that the famous do made by Bamen Tomotsugo has this feature ):

      http://rs831.pbsrc.com/albums/zz238/estcrh/wakibiki/freeuser20073-img600x457-1294566481yxkbsm94759.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

      http://rs831.pbsrc.com/albums/zz238/estcrh/wakibiki/3db02.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

      I've always thought about the wakibiki in the context of manchira, some type of karuta/kikko armor that has to be worn under the armor to cover the armpit, but they had this version too.

      If you are referring to the two warriors entering the house with torches, they worn kote in the style of the 14th century; since they have smaller gyoyo protecting the shoulders instead of tsubo or tosei sode, the upper arm is protected by larger plates, like this one:

      https://pin.it/yxcjou7vaabcyh

      They are the fore runner of tsutsu kote.

      You could also find big plates on the upper arms in the 16th century (like bishamon gote), but they were less common due to tosei sode (usually) covering that area, so to reduce the weight of armor they used plated mail.

      (P.s: in the previous post, there is a black block that shouldn't be there and doesn't allow the link to work poperly; to see the webpage I wanted to link, write "&block" without "" after 15 and before =57)

      Delete
    4. Took a long to reply because I was in hospital for several days.

      I have pictures of Central Asians in that kind of jumpsuit armor to show they may appear there at the same time although it is already used earlier by Goguryeo in the 300s.

      It is hard to determine who use it first or if it is developed independently (I mean usage of beast head to protect shoulder or armor with leg armor joined to the torso).


      This is the earliest I have seen of this type of armor where the leg armor are joined to the torso armor seamlessly. It is from 5th-7th century (which also coincides with new innovative armor being developed in East Asia for some reason).

      https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/as/original/DP357161.jpg


      This one show that full arm lamellar manica are possible. Maybe the Chinese change it later into laminar because it is more suited for that purpose.

      https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/IYdYtK9f5TZCBAnqtbs2Qhyg5uic7oicxcWKbVYGTJLIS4PNqFk9BJHQOE56raNZWUpvkdCZHSS0icRlaw2W3qU5Q/0?wx_fmt=jpeg


      This one show that the tubular leg armor could be reduced to just knee length with the shin and foot protected with tubular lamellar leg manica. 7th-8th century.

      http://arts.fgs.org.tw/fgs_arts/tw/common_lib/get_image.php?arg=EkBJXepRwQZ5LqpsJgnY8kVGqR%2F%2F



      I have seen Korean influence in early Japanese armor, but I have not seen how far Chinese culture influence Japan.



      For reinforcing my hypothesis that it is possible to not only cover the armpit with non-mail flexible armor or rigid plates, I will add 1 more picture, this one is 16th century German manual.

      https://mikemonaco.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/1bsb00007894_00473.jpg



      See the one on the left, his armpit is covered the same way as the 17th century armor I show you.


      About Japanese cuirass, why do flat Sendai Do used as well clamshell cuirass, is it for ease of use?

      Where can I get info from or buy book of Sasama and Kozan?


      Also the Japanese have a quite unique of protecting the arm, the usual Asian arm armor is basically vambrace and upper sleeve which maybe tubular or half tubular (with the gap left open or sometimes covered) or outright full manica.

      The Japanese use two rigid armor on forearm and upper arm and joined them with mail with elbow plate.

      Delete
    5. I hope you are doing fine!

      I believe that lamellar manica were dismissed in favour of laminar ones mainly because the latter are faster to produce and assemble.

      Also, I believe that is much more comfortable to have a tubular leg armor that reach the knee rather than a longer one.

      As far as Chinese influences on Japanese armors are concerned, they aren't many. It might be possible that lamellar armor was a Chinese influence, but nevertheless it came to Japan by Korea, so at best is an indirect one. The same goes with brigandine, it might be that Kikko armor was somewhat inspired by Ming armors but there aren't any serious links to support this idea. In any case, foreign influences on Japanese armors stopped around the 6-8th century, after this period it was all 100% Japanese design up until the late 16th century.

      Well Sendai do aren't necessarily flat, some are slightly curved and other have a ridge in the middle; they were the direct development of Mogami do, with larger plates and longer hinges. What made them popular was their "modularity", you can quite easily mass produce them really fast, they are easy to store and to repair as well.

      About Kozan, the english version of his book is extremely hard to find online, and it is very expensive, like 500 $ or more... you can try to see if there is a library that has the book near you. Sasama's book on the other hand are available on amazon, they are expensive too mainly due to shipping cost (50-80$ more or less, at least for me) and are only in Japanese.

      Delete
    6. One thing I could not quite understand was why the arm holes for European and Japanese cuirasses were so large.

      1)You mentioned something about how solid inner armpit protection not protecting the armpit when hands were raise, and that this was solved in flexible wakibiki and that exterior plate wakibikisa provided by you and joshua. Could you please help me undertsand what this means?

      2)Why is this problem simply not solved by smaller arm holes? Both Europe and Japan created complex specialized pieces like large spauldors, rondels and the wakibiki/ Gyouyou, but I fail to see how smaller openings could not solve the problems.

      3)Regarding this picture.
      http://rs831.pbsrc.com/albums/zz238/estcrh/wakibiki/3db02.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip.

      If the upper arms are raised, a point was made that the string attached to the upper arm would raise the plates upward and protect the armpits when raised(which I am not sure I understand), but wouldn't the lower chords hold the wakibiki in place and prevent it from moving? Also, how is this different from simply having a smaller arm hole?

      Delete
    7. Hello and thank you for leaving a comment! You raised some interesting points.

      I don't have a clear answer on why the holes were that big (although I have to say in some armor is bigger than in others) but I suppose comfort was the main reason. With a smaller hole, the armor will be closer to the armpit and it might cause some chafing while doing activities like riding a horse in which the armor is constantly moving up and down. You will also gain extra range of movement when you are bending forward since the arms will be closer to your waits if your back is in that position.

      1) Solid Wakibiki are usually fixed in place so they aren't supposed to move, as you noted. They also cannot cover the portion of the arm that is connected with the torso because the solid plates rested on the torso rather than on the arm. A flexible wakibiki made of mail was a single piece that run from the arm to the armpit so you solve that problem.

      2) Smaller gaps will indeed solve that problem a little bit, but you will lose some range of movements.

      3) The more I think about it the more makes sense; indeed the solid Wakibiki won't move so the problem of the arm portion I mentioned in 2) will remain. However the point of having that is reducing the gap with an outside piece that is laced with cords so it should have some "give" and range of motion on its own to avoid chafing on the armpit. It can also be removed if it's annoying while if the cuirass was already that high in the armpit you cannot remove it.
      A solid wakibiki will protect the side of the torso related to the armpit, a flexible one would protect both the torso as well as the arm portion that is connected to the body.
      Also a lot of upper lateral plates were laced in order to have some degree of downward and upward movement.

      Talking about the functionality of armor is hard without having real examples to test and to discuss; however we need to have some "faiths" when it comes to armor designs because it was born out of the battlefield in order to make people risking their life live another day after the battle.

      Delete
    8. I agree. However, it is my humble opinion, as a lay person, that the version comprising of articulated plates would be more effective.
      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/1c/27/541c2772261b84e62d7d70cbd5d6f532.jpg
      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ce/94/b7/ce94b7021d5b86c4a16fdb88c548c301.jpg
      https://picclick.com/Japan-Antique-Edo-yoroi-Wakibiki-Armpit-kabuto-tsuba-163105505134.html

      For one, I found far more examples of this type, although I suspect they were mostly gendai. For another, they would afford the tough protection of plate while also being articulated to cover the armpits even when the arm was raised. (while they could bend with the changing shape between arm and dou, a blow would dissipate the blow onto the edges of the dou instead of the body as they were worn outside.
      I might disagree with joshua with regard to the lack of lower fastening causing the wakibiki to "(hang) loosely outside the cuirass" and cause discomfort. \
      1) It is this flexibility that allows it to slide up and down the armor as the upperarm is raised and lowered.
      2) Most designs composing of solid plate did not process lower chords (although the white spotted strings along the edges in picture 2 might have been used to secure to the lower end to the dou), and blows would press the wakibiki TOWARDS the dou.
      3)As can be seen in 1 and 3, there are hinges for the wakibiki to conform to the curvature of the armor, and in a sense loosely locking it in place, such that they will not 'flap about' in motion. Tightening the upper chords would certainly allow for adequate tightness if need be.
      Moreover, their center of gravity would probably allow them to rest against the dou, so they wouldn't loosely hang about.

      Delete
    9. 4) Because they move with the arm, it wold actually be more comfortable as there would be less likelihood of chaffing. (Although I think the main discomfort would be the pressing of metal against the armpits in certain maneuvers.)
      With full length kote on, chaffing should be impossible.

      Delete
    10. Yes indeed, the articulated plates would be better in every aspect as you noted.

      The problem of not having them fastened at the bottom is that they could move a lot when the wearer is doing chaotic activities such as riding, running, fighting and especially grappling in which arguably the wakibiki are needed the most.

      Another solution might be using an articulated wakibiki, laced both at the bottom as well as at the shoulders, but positioned very high so that when the arm is resting in its natural position, the wakibiki would be compressed and when the arm is raised the lames would rise due to the lack of pressure; I hope to have explained clearly but I can understand that is hard without visual representations.

      In any case, even with a solid plate wakibiki, if it is positioned high the gap would be reduced quite a lot, at the cost of a little bit of hindrance and discomfort.

      I have to say that you have raised good points and well thought perspectives indeed; thank you!

      Delete
  10. Amazing post. It really tells when you have the ONLY information of some of the more technical information, in English in the internet. Which is unfortunate and only serves to cement ignorance.

    You mentioned a metal plate protecting the chords joining the breastplate and tarssets. You gave an example in the Royal Armory of Leeds, with this link:
    https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-32348.html
    However, I cannot find such a feature in the armor displayed. Perhaps they updated the info, and for whatever reasons, now feature a different set of armor?

    Anyway, do you by anychance, have a the real picture of this dou? That would be awesome.

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    Replies
    1. Ok found it. To clarify, this is the feature mentioned, where the dou is extended at the front to cover the chords, yes?
      https://www.pinterest.it/pin/210050770106557887/feedback/?invite_code=1ed628fd585c4288ab9611008892db31&sender_id=210050907528808567

      Really liking this blog.

      Delete
    2. Thank you!!

      I hope that this blog post will be popular and popular with time so that people could see the true potential behind this style of armor.

      In any case, the example of the Royal Armouries had that feature but it is used to cover the abdomen behind the laces rather than the string itself; this is why you don't see the additional plates, because they are behind the cords.
      If you go by the description of the RA website, it is written that: "(...)with subsidary lames at the front and back fastened by rivets working in slots."

      Here is the Do without the tassets:
      https://pin.it/go5iynwbgeehhb

      Also here a "better" picture of what I described; it is barely visible but you can see at the bottom of the Do additional plates that cover the strings:

      https://pin.it/mxplvwm4fbkwux

      Delete
  11. You mentioned how some sode were "hinged to cover better the entire surface", do you by any chance have pictures of examples? I would like to see how much of the frontal forearm it covers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure!
      However the protection is only slightly increased; many sode were already curved in order to accomodate the shape of the arm and rest on it.
      Here there is an example of one of the famous Hikone Gusoku suits:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/12/c2/c6/12c2c6d2f2f268f61ca416960ccbdc30.jpg

      Delete
    2. Oh?? It looks pretty impenetrable to me!
      It seems more encompassing than certain examples of tsubo sodei like these...
      https://collections.royalarmouries.org/media/emumedia/33/100/large_Di_2018_1320.jpg
      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/296956169175060106/?lp=true
      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/430867889329514966/

      Delete
    3. Yes it also depends on the style of the sode; if they are hinged like that one they are supposed to move less.
      In fact is the same idea of bishamon kote more or less.

      Delete
    4. Speaking of which, I have seen this rather strange assembly, although its not the first time I've seen it. This man is wearing 2 sode on each side, which basically serves as both pauldrons and besagews.
      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/343610646566484293/
      I wonder if this was in fact something practiced by the samurai, or cosplay gone too far. XD

      Similar examples include
      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/ARZ-h7wtrMqfevHGrm9LAdY_VSpojjMIN0d2o-dbp0gqkCwGweSbufI/

      There was a very blatant example on pinterest, but I cannot seem to find it. Will send you when I do. (Could be some collector who had 2 too many sode on his mountings)

      Delete
    5. I don't know if this is a single really angular sode or 2 sodeson each side. It seems to be rather impractical if it were a single folded piece.
      https://www.pinterest.com/pin/370984088046725533/

      Delete
    6. Well, that's an easy one: two sode doesn't make sense at all, one is already enough I would say!

      The second one is actually a kobire + bishamon kote combination while the third looks like a split sode: probably an Edo period oddity!

      Delete
  12. Hi. I found a rather strange specimen, apparently on display in Tokapi palace.
    http://www.filtsai.com/pictures/2008_cruise/10-13/palace_armory_05.jpg
    Seems like some form of bisegews. Are you familiar with this? I havent seem something like this before.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, is that a rare version of the sendan no ita on a tosei gosoku?

      Delete
    2. It look like to be a two piece gyoyo, probably inspired by early sedan no ita plates; in any case I'm quite confident is an Edo period oddity. It should also be placed like a gyoyo, so it should cover the cords rather than the shoulder in that way.

      Delete
  13. That's an easy one: two sode doesn't make sense at all, one is already enough I would say! Nadeem Khalid Honorary Consul General of Mongolia

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  14. Do you have info on different cuts of kote sleeves, and how they were tied on? Some look like they fit standalone, others look like they attach to torso armor but I haven't seen a page just go over the differences.

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    Replies
    1. Well they were mainly tied to the breastplate in the shoulder area, and some types also were tied across the chest. Other types were shorter and were tied under the last lame of the sode. Other times were essentially integrated into short vest structure so you wear them as shirt with sleeves.
      Maybe more pictures will help!
      This is usually how is fixed with the sode to the cuirass:
      https://www.pinterest.it/pin/210050770110792425

      Sometimes they do have a larger section under the armpit (kote-bukuro) that is used to fix the armor piece to the chest, with string being knotted across the chest. These types of kote can be worn standalone.
      Sometime this section is armored and need to be fixed to the cuirass as well.
      https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a6/73/2d/a6732d69a9e103e171d608813b99a93b.jpg

      Delete
  15. I'm learning as much from reading the comments as i did from reading the main article :O

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  16. First I have to say that this is an excellent article that brings to light many relatively unknown aspects of Japanese armor in a great manner. Second I would like to ask you about the oft-repeated claim that sode had largely been abandoned during the last decades of the 16th c. At least one researcher supports the theory that they many suits from the era did not have any and were altered in later periods to include them for aestehetic reasons. From what I understand this claim stems partially from the work of Sakakibara Kozan (who isn't always right), so I would like to know if there is an alternate view on the subject. Thanks in advance!

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    Replies
    1. Thanks!
      Well Tosei sode if anything were developed to match tosei gusoku armor in the 16th century. What is true is that sode in general might have been seldom used in favor of bishamon kote or smaller kobire which fit a similar role. Howeve if no "heavy" kote was used, there is no reason to discard a pair of sode.
      What is true is that Osode were seldom used in this century, and already during the 14th century new styles and design of sode started to be developed and used over the more larger and cumbersome ones.

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    2. Thank you for your answer! I asked because I am mostly interested to know whether the usage of the smaller and better fitting varieties of sode would be considered a rarity by the late 16th c (say around the Imjin war). From what I understand it might have been somewhat unusual but not out of the question.

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    3. It might have been rare by that time simple due to the fact that most troops in the army were ashigaru equipped with lighter gear, but among the wealthy troops I see no reasons why such a trend would have took place, given that Osode were still rarely used as a symbol of high rank (like in the late 16th century armor sent as a gift to England by Ieyasu).

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  17. This was a very article to read and very informative as well but one question Is there any evidences of a Kikko gane dō along with a matching skirt protection (sorry already forgot the name for it)

    I’ve too been trying to learn about Japanese arms & armor but still haven’t found a particular time period to focus on since I really have myself spread out thin right now (currently studying arms & armor of Norway of late 13th-14th, Azteca before European contact, and Chinese of early Qing Dynasty, and currently for Japanese still don’t know but have interest in the third phase of the Sengoku Judai)

    And another question for armor, this there evidence of Nio Dō’s being used in combat along with the usage of scale armor dō’s

    Sorry if this is all messy, I’m really just all over the place in armor studies and college studies.

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  18. I have a question on the iron Mountain armour reproduktions the inside of the arm does not seam to be covered. So my question is did moast samurai kote hav mail on te inside of te arm. And did thay moasty all have atleast main over the armpit

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